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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

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Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#151

Post by fullstop »

ricardo81 wrote: post #29
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

Canada is blessed with cheap energy, the abundance of hydro surely helps to bridge any intermittency other renewables have. I lived there 10 years back, your energy is less than half the cost of mine in Scotland. In Scotland's case we're part of the UK and the rest of the UK is less blessed with the geography for hydro. The incumbent Scottish government also has an anti stance to nuclear. I hope the incentives for cl…

Everything that I learned about energy in Scotland comes from Still Game, so I must ask -- how many bars?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#152

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan.

This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned).

Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#153

Post by vixen99 »

microtonal wrote: post #31
DetectDefect wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing from your calculus is the cost of creating, cleaning, maintaining and eventually replacing the hardware. None of that is "free" - it is merely externalized to a vulnerable population or to your future self.

Missing from your calculus are the healthcare costs of every person in a country breathing in fumes from electricity plants that burn coal and fumes from cars that burn gasoline. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266675922... (And a gazillion other studies.)

Especially when they are offshored to China. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-023-01308-x

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#154

Post by amanaplanacanal »

DetectDefect wrote: post #111
jnovek wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being very aggressive and confrontational in your comments and people are responding in kind.

Not really. People are angry because it is likely their first time hearing a contrarian narrative about solar energy, which likely challenges their own sunk-cost fallacy as solar panel owners.

Everything needs to be created, cleaned, maintained, and eventually replaced. You are acting like this is some sort of surprise.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#155

Post by eitally »

darkwater wrote: post #99
DetectDefect wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, okay. Does a warranty cover sweeping snow off your panels and washing them many times throughout the years? I guess if one does not value time, then solar panels could be considered "free" - but this is a bizarre sacrifice.

Lies. I'm using solar panels since 2022, still producing same peak energy and not cleaned them once. Some companies/electricians will try to sell you a cleaning and maintenance service for ~80-100EUR/year here but it's basically throwing money.

I live in a fairly arid place (Bay Area) where it rains in winter but gets quite dry and dusty in the summer. I've had rooftop solar since 2016 and have noticed that generation decreases by as much as 8-10% when the panels are covered in summer dust.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#156

Post by Zigurd »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

Be less annoyed because utility demand declines.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#157

Post by mrks_hy »

spants wrote: post #15

The UK has some of the highest energy costs in the world due to the stupid Net Zero taxes. Our economy and manufacturing is suffering.

> due to the stupid Net Zero taxes.

No. Citation neede. The issue is the moronic way energy auctions are done, first by setting the price to the highest source that can satisfy (always gas) but ignoring (!) geography. Then, phase 2, dropping the impossible providers (i.e. Scottish hydro in the North for South England), and doing another (much more expensive pass). The Octopus CEO had a succinct explainer recently, can't find the video...

Found it: https://youtu.be/5WgS-Dsm31E?t=91 starts at 1:31

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#158

Post by doublerabbit »

FrostViper8 wrote: post #121
doublerabbit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any energy security for the future for the UK unfortunately. We sold ourselves short during the GW/Blair Neo-labour era. Scotland maybe, they have wind-farms but the UK likes to tax that. We've just started the era of paying for the cost of Brexit. It's hitting hard. My weekly supermarket shop for the basic essentials (cheese, eggs, flour, vegetables) now come to around $60/80 a trip. Parmesan Cheese is a…

> A supermarket shop for the basic essentials (cheese, eggs, flour, vegetables) now come to around $60/80 a trip. No it doesn't. Maybe if you are shopping at Waitrose. It is more expensive. But it isn't £45 for basics. I did an entire shop which will last me the week for £30 (in Aldi).

I shop at Sainsburys where I can. The main supermarkets for me are Morrison and kind of forced to use M&S.

Everyone has their super market preference. ASDA would be cheaper still. You can't disagree that prices have sky rocketed, shrunk in quantity and now lower quality.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#159

Post by [deleted] »

Zigurd wrote: post #156
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

Be less annoyed because utility demand declines.

[deleted]

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#160

Post by altern8 »

direwolf20 wrote: post #148
altern8 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, there is no oil and we just relied on cheap gas from Russia--which I guess it didn't turn out to be a good strategy after all. That's interesting about oil companies. Is that who's lobbing to pass laws that just seem (to me) to be written on purpose to make our companies less competitive? How does that work, how do oil companies profit from that?

If you can sell more oil and at a higher price, you get more money.

OK, but how, they lobby to pass laws against coal and nuclear, so that you burn more oil..?
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