In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels • Hacker News Board

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#51

Post by boringg » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

DetectDefect wrote: post #44

adrianN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panels have warranties of over twenty years now. They pay for themselves much earlier. You probably have to replace the inverter earlier, but that’s not a huge expense. I don’t know anybody who lives in a place where it rains who cleans the panels on their roof.

Oh, okay. Does a warranty cover sweeping snow off your panels and washing them many times throughout the years? I guess if one does not value time, then solar panels could be considered "free" - but this is a bizarre sacrifice.

You don't bother with the snow. Winter is low production energy due to the suns positioning - it melts in the spring and your back to producing. Most solar power is between march - september anyways.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#52

Post by altern8 » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

Well, OK--but at what cost?

Electricity/heating and gasoline in the EU is many times more expensive than in the U.S., and as a result EVERYTHING is more expensive.

Mix that with lower buying power and taxes and we spend 2-3 times for stuff.

I would think that most people would happily choose lower prices over clean energy and paper straws.

Our companies are also less and less competitive because of these initiatives, and companies from China take over in part thanks to the complete lack if environmental and labor laws over there.

Seems to me like this is happening more and more, and it's so widespread and obvious that it almost makes you think that politicians are being bought by Chinese companies/government.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#53

Post by microtonal » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

DetectDefect wrote: post #35

microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing from your calculus are the healthcare costs of every person in a country breathing in fumes from electricity plants that burn coal and fumes from cars that burn gasoline. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266675922... (And a gazillion other studies.)

[flagged]

One should definitely think about the children when choosing coal/gasoline vs. full electric. In fact we did and we have an electric car, replaced our gas cooking top by induction, and our gas-based heating by a heat pump. Last time I boarded an airplane was in 2019 I think.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#54

Post by lostlogin » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

DetectDefect wrote: post #44

adrianN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panels have warranties of over twenty years now. They pay for themselves much earlier. You probably have to replace the inverter earlier, but that’s not a huge expense. I don’t know anybody who lives in a place where it rains who cleans the panels on their roof.

Oh, okay. Does a warranty cover sweeping snow off your panels and washing them many times throughout the years? I guess if one does not value time, then solar panels could be considered "free" - but this is a bizarre sacrifice.

Where are you getting this maintenance schedule from?

I haven’t touched ours, they are clean and have been going fine with zero maintenance, though admittedly it’s only been a year.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#55

Post by microtonal » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #50

microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing from your calculus are the healthcare costs of every person in a country breathing in fumes from electricity plants that burn coal and fumes from cars that burn gasoline. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266675922... (And a gazillion other studies.)

Not supporting OP because I think hes backwards on the matter. However in Canada the electricity that is being burned isn't coal based - so you need to compare the actual grid not some hypothetical grid.

That's a fair point, though I think OP's recommendation to switch to solar is also to people outside Canada and most of the world is still burning fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#56

Post by blitzar » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #12

jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's $1000 per year at today's energy prices, which surely will go up over time.

One could hope with improving tech and decreasing regulations we could have decreasing (nominal) energy prices in the future. That would be progress.

> decreasing (nominal) energy prices in the future

Hasn't happened ever before, not sure why this time it would be different.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#57

Post by munk-a » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

DetectDefect wrote: post #22

testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

Missing from your calculus is the cost of creating, cleaning, maintaining and eventually replacing the hardware. None of that is "free" - it is merely externalized to a vulnerable population or to your future self.

Roof maintenance is a need in Canada regardless of the presence of solar. Solar roofs do demand additional maintenance but the benefits over relying on natural gas for power (which is the alternative in Canada outside ON/QC) is worth it.

I will stand by your statement from the philosophical point of view that nothing in life is free and everything has its trade offs - but this is a pretty clear positive. In addition, Canada has pretty decent workplace safety enforcement for the sort of workers that'd be doing the maintenance - it certainly isn't perfect but it is something that Canadians seem to find important.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#58

Post by nehal3m » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

DetectDefect wrote: post #35

microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing from your calculus are the healthcare costs of every person in a country breathing in fumes from electricity plants that burn coal and fumes from cars that burn gasoline. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266675922... (And a gazillion other studies.)

[flagged]

Strange that in your comment history you're all about the democratization of technology, but you seem to be against solar of all things? Talk about decentralized power!

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#59

Post by DetectDefect » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:13 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #50

microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing from your calculus are the healthcare costs of every person in a country breathing in fumes from electricity plants that burn coal and fumes from cars that burn gasoline. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266675922... (And a gazillion other studies.)

Not supporting OP because I think hes backwards on the matter. However in Canada the electricity that is being burned isn't coal based - so you need to compare the actual grid not some hypothetical grid.

[flagged]

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#60

Post by zozbot234 » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 4:13 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #12

jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's $1000 per year at today's energy prices, which surely will go up over time.

One could hope with improving tech and decreasing regulations we could have decreasing (nominal) energy prices in the future. That would be progress.

We'll most likely see off-peak or dispatchable-demand energy prices become effectively negligible due to cheap intermittent sources, but the price for reliable 24/7 supply will if anything trend higher. Storage is not enough to bridge the gap in all cases, so you need either very expensive peaker plants or less expensive nuclear to provide a reliable baseload supply for those critical uses.