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Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

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Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#451

Post by iamnothere »

croon wrote: post #421
joe_mamba wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because voter ID rules are capricious and partisan. Can you elaborate?

When looking at supporters of voter ID laws, look at whether they support free IDs, expansion of DMVs/issuers of IDs, etc. Similarly, opposition of mail-in-voting typically ignores or supports closing down polling places (in strategically partisan areas), making it difficult for groups of people to vote. These issues are always (by design) discussed in isolation, while ignoring the intrinsically related issues. TL;DR…

My proposal:

- Free FEC federal voter ID (requires proof of citizenship) to be used ONLY for voting

- Voter ID can be obtained early (age 16?) but DOB is connected to ID and you can’t vote before the legal age

- Funded FEC program to register students for voter IDs at schools and colleges and teach them about voting

- FEC to work with agencies like social security and IRS to determine if a voter is deceased (messy process). Likely deceased voters are communicated to the states ASAP. States must report confirmed deceased voters to FEC ASAP for recording.

- Federal 2 week minimum early voting period

- Federal funding and monitoring of elections requiring adequate polling site coverage of geographic areas, notification of residents, etc

- Federal program to provide free shuttle to and from nearest polling station for residents without transit. Operated federally, states have no involvement. Contract with private transit as FEMA does.

- Mail in ballots heavily restricted, must provide proof of absence or be military

- Voting day is a national holiday

- Federal ballots are separate and simplified to speed up counting/recounting (ballot complexity is often cited as a reason for slow counting)

It will never happen but this would solve so many issues.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#452

Post by M95D »

yazantapuz wrote: post #441
lategloriousgnu wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, which has mandatory voting, they literally just check your name off the voter roll when you arrive at the polling station. Each polling station has a list (digital or paper) of people registered to vote in that electorate. After your name is checked off, you then proceed to a booth where you mark a piece of paper before folding and placing that paper into a plastic collection box on the way out. It's ve…

Years ago in Argentina, a corrupt politician forced a small community to vote for them using a clever trick. They instructed the voters to fold their ballots into a specific shape or figure. Since the paper wasn't torn or damaged, the votes remained legally valid. This allowed the politician to ensure the exact number of promised votes were in the ballot box during the count

But votes aren't counted by how the paper is folded. Any one of the voters could stamp/mark another name (or no name at all) and still fold the paper as instructed. So, how does that work?

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#453

Post by somenameforme »

degamad wrote: post #450
somenameforme wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there no polling stations where you can submit the ballot in a private location, like a drop box inside a booth or whatever? In the US I've only voted electronically, and it's done in a private booth with a curtain preventing external visibility, so somebody can easily video record the entire process with no realistic way of altering their vote.

No, the booths where you fill out your ballot are on one side of the room, and the ballot boxes are on the other, supervised by an election officer, and near the exit. You: - collect blank ballots (usually 2 pieces of paper, one for the House, one for the Senate) at the entry, - walk over to the booth, - fill out your ballot in secret at the booth (taking as long as you like), - fold the ballots, - walk over to the b…

Interesting. Sounds like a solid system.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#454

Post by greenie_beans »

mullingitover wrote: post #337
xp84 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to respectfully challenge you on this. There is no chance anyone can ever create an effortless-to-get ID. Even if it was like the census where they sent someone to your house repeatedly to try to find you, take your picture and print an ID on the spot, it wouldn’t be effortless because you might not know where your passport or birth certificate are. Some people probably are so badly organized and/or ignorant…

> By the way, a state ID costs $15 in Mississippi and $9 for “eligible people” in California. If it costs a penny and is a requirement to vote, it is an unconstitutional poll tax.

for real. read one single american history book and you'll realize this is bad

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#455

Post by quilombodigital »

fmobus wrote: post #369
quilombodigital wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is false your affirmation that they are not audited by public organizations. Entities can register to see the source code in a controlled room. In 2024 for example the party União Brasil checked the code. In 2025 during the official audit 149 entities registered to check the code and attack the machine. Universities, ONGs, political parties, etc. Please check you facts before posting what you think Reference: http…

Letting "entities" audit the code in a closed room is not enough for me. The entire codebase should be open sourced publicly.

yes, I dont see why it should not be open sourced publicly. maybe send someone with an eidetic memory to audit it. :)

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#456

Post by [deleted] »

HaZeust wrote: post #375
bluGill wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote buying and worse 'vote for me or I'll shoot you'. Buying is the more common scam but there are worse options for evil people

You can also do this today by telling someone to take a picture of their vote by smartphone or you'll shoot them. Millions post a picture of their ballot on high-energy political forums every 2 years already. This hypothetical is unhelpful.

[deleted]

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#457

Post by quilombodigital »

crote wrote: post #383
quilombodigital wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is false your affirmation that they are not audited by public organizations. Entities can register to see the source code in a controlled room. In 2024 for example the party União Brasil checked the code. In 2025 during the official audit 149 entities registered to check the code and attack the machine. Universities, ONGs, political parties, etc. Please check you facts before posting what you think Reference: http…

... and how do you, the voter, prove that the machine you are using to vote is indeed running the audited source code?

thats why I said I only miss the option to verify my vote history. I dont need to know how my vote got there, I just need to verify it at the place that sums all votes.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#458

Post by nonethewiser »

elbasti wrote: post #210
nonethewiser wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Elections like this can be gamed, but the gaming becomes an exercise in coercing people to vote counter to their preference, not "hacking" the system. If that's gaming the system, what even is the point of voting?

The key word is coereced (as in, forced, not convinced).

OK, I accept that distinction. I interpreted it more as "they were shown what I consider to be disinformation and found it convincing."

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#459

Post by dghlsakjg »

closewith wrote: post #397
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for older republicans and military members in almost all states?

I'm not American, so I don't understand the older republican comment, but except in exceptionally adverse circumstances (astronauts on the ISS or submariners, etc) the military can provide ballot boxes to it's personnel.

Military and overseas voters vote in their home state elections, even federally (all elections are held by states, even for federal candidates). You would need to ensure that there is a ballot box representing each state that has an eligible voter at a given site, and then need to figure out logistics for getting thousands of sealed boxes back to the vote counters in each state within the allotted deadline. You would also need to solve the issue of maintaining vote anonymity at low volumes.

Or, you could have a central, federally run organization that takes responsibility for delivering sealed ballots to the respective states in a timely manner. Which is what we call voting by mail.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#460

Post by yonaguska »

habinero wrote: post #410
somenameforme wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality sledgehammer guy is never the threat, it's somebody fabricating votes. This can be done in a completely illegal fashion as in complete identity fraud, legally grey areas like ballot harvesting, or more socially palatable forms of identity fraud like somebody voting on behalf of family members who would not otherwise be voting. And the biggest problem of this all is that it's basically impossible to prove b…

This is 100%, completely absolutely untrue. Stop repeating this propaganda. The system is actually really well designed and safe, I was a poll observer. You cannot "fabricate" votes, because all mail-in ballots are associated with a voter. Or rather, you put your ballot in an envelope and the envelope is associated with you. When your ballot is received, you are marked as voted and other ballots are invalid. The enve…

Claims of voter fraud have shifted to mass voter registration occuring for people that are not eligible to vote, then ballots being sent out without being requested. How is this concern addressed?
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