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We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

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Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#231

Post by egorfine »

samiv wrote: post #217
causalscience wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian students Is this cultural? I ran a small business some years ago (later failed) and was paying for contract work to various people. At the I perceived the pattern that Indian contractors would never ever ask for clarifications, would never say they didn't know something, would never say they didn't understand something, etc. Instead they just ran with whatever they happened to have in their mind, until I cal…

I used to work with colleagues from China in contracting and I had the same experience with them. If they don't know something they have hard time saying that they don't know something or don't understand something. Ficticious Example could be Q: is this car red? A: it's not green. Q: yeah I know it's not green. But is it red? A: today is Thursday. One thing I leaned it's not worth pressing forward and causing a scen…

> it's not worty pressing forward and causing a scene

Tell me more. Why?

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#232

Post by OJFord »

causalscience wrote: post #44
nchmy wrote: post #11

I've been helping a bit with OWASP documentation lately and there's been a surge of Indian students eagerly opening nonsensical issues and PRs and all of the communication and code is clearly 100% LLMs. They'll even talk back and forth with each other. It's a huge headache for the maintainers. I suggested following what Ghostty does where everything starts as discussions - only maintainers create issues, and PRs can…

> Indian students Is this cultural? I ran a small business some years ago (later failed) and was paying for contract work to various people. At the I perceived the pattern that Indian contractors would never ever ask for clarifications, would never say they didn't know something, would never say they didn't understand something, etc. Instead they just ran with whatever they happened to have in their mind, until I cal…

[flagged]

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#233

Post by robofanatic »

moralestapia wrote: post #187
freakynit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian here (~15+ years in tech). I've seen this behavior a lot, and unfortunately, I did some of this myself earlier in my career. Based on my own experience, here are a few reasons (could be a lot more): 1. Unlike most developed countries, in India (and many other develping countries), people in authority are expected to be respected unconditinally(almost). Questioning a manager, teacher, or senior is often seen as…

Since we are talking about LLMs, what I've noticed about the Indian/Pakistani "LLM" is they follow this way of structuring thoughts: 1. They 2. Always 3. List 4. Things ... and end up with a conclusion/punchline/takeaway. I always wanted to ask, is that due to training? I could imagine all schools around there have a specific style, like all their assignments need to follow this general form, and then they just get u…

I bet you haven't seriously communicated with others in a language that is not native to you. You'll probably end up doing similar things if you have to.

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#235

Post by amiga386 »

jb1991 wrote: post #200

It sounds funny, but it's not. I once issued a bug to them that didn't have enough information about how to reproduce... and I was lambasted on Reddit and eventually just deleted my account there it was so terrifying. Some dev teams do not mess around. In fact I've shied off most social media since and no longer issue bug reports to any company, I was scarred deep over the treatment.

That is sad, sorry to hear it.

But at the same time, sometimes you have to really persevere to get a bug fixed.

Consider the perspective of the maintainer of a popular project: to them, you're one person in a big queue of people all reporting problems. Most issues turn out to be "I need free technical support, which you don't offer, so I'll phrase it in the form of a bug", and it saps their time to look into the details of each issue to find whether it's genuine-bug or user-error.

So that's why you should try to give reproduction instructions as best you can, and be up-front if they're incomplete, or you only saw it happen once.

If the maintainer responds harshly, or even if you get commentary from others, remember they are (or should be) criticising the bug report, not you. Try not to take it personally.

And even if they decide to close it, or not investigate further, you've still done the world a favour by adding genuine details about something you saw. The bug report is still searchable when closed. Other people who get the same problem as you are likely to find it, and it might spur them to reproducing the bug where you couldn't, and re-opening or re-reporting the bug and driving it forward to completion.

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#236

Post by taude »

bluGill wrote: post #183
freakynit wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoid middlemen in India.. sorry for the word, but they are the biggest leechers. We hate them too here. India is filled with small one-room service-based companies(the middlemens') that hire interns, for ZERO pay, make them work 12-14 hour days under extremely "humiliating" conditions and then when it comes to giving them internship completion certificate, they demand huge sums of money just to release them... think…

The good engineers in india know their value and get it. My company has offices in india because you have to manage them yourself not use middlemen. You can train the locals to be great managers (at least some). wages for good people in india are worse similar people in the us, but often high than in europe. But there are other problems with europe and so it can be the better deal.

Responding to you in this thread, because this is the way: the only success I've seen to offshoing to india, is to actually run the office yourself, have an exec over there, manage and control hiring, pay above market rates, etc...

I've been with two companies that have been aquired, and the first thing the PE/New Companies do is aggressive offshoring for cutting costs.

1) worked, because the aquiring company had an established office in Hyderabad, and we flew the tech leads over to the US to spend six weeks embeddeed with the team, etc.

2) the second one failed miserably becasue we had an Exec VP who told our engineers that he was replacing them in India for half the price, and his strategy was to hire a contracting company.... after several months of "contractors" coming and going, someone else in the company realized what needed to happen....

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#237

Post by gilrain »

UltraSane wrote: post #151
causalscience wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian students Is this cultural? I ran a small business some years ago (later failed) and was paying for contract work to various people. At the I perceived the pattern that Indian contractors would never ever ask for clarifications, would never say they didn't know something, would never say they didn't understand something, etc. Instead they just ran with whatever they happened to have in their mind, until I cal…

I worked at a company where we had a untouchable manager who had some Brahman caste devs report to him and they absolutely HATED this.

Brahmin. Brahman both is you and reports to you, as it were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#238

Post by buckle8017 »

ilogik wrote: post #226
koliber wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen an interesting behavior in India. If I ask someone on the street for directions, they will always give me an answer, even if they don't know. If they don't know, they'll make something up. This was strange. I asked a lot of Indian people about it and they said that it has to do with "saving face". Saying "I don't know" is a disgraceful thing. So if someone does not know the answer, they make something up in…

sounds like an LLM :)

[flagged]

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#239

Post by al_borland »

causalscience wrote: post #44
nchmy wrote: post #11

I've been helping a bit with OWASP documentation lately and there's been a surge of Indian students eagerly opening nonsensical issues and PRs and all of the communication and code is clearly 100% LLMs. They'll even talk back and forth with each other. It's a huge headache for the maintainers. I suggested following what Ghostty does where everything starts as discussions - only maintainers create issues, and PRs can…

> Indian students Is this cultural? I ran a small business some years ago (later failed) and was paying for contract work to various people. At the I perceived the pattern that Indian contractors would never ever ask for clarifications, would never say they didn't know something, would never say they didn't understand something, etc. Instead they just ran with whatever they happened to have in their mind, until I cal…

I ran into this when I went to India to help train our team over there.

I tried specifically asking questions where the correct answer was “no” and they wouldn’t tell me no. In some cases I told them I was expecting them to say “no” and they still wouldn’t do it.

It was very difficult to figure out what they knew or didn’t know without putting them through a test and seeing how they did.

Re: We will ban you and ridicule you in public if you waste our time on crap reports

#240

Post by pelagicAustral »

yokoprime wrote: post #205
nchmy wrote: post #11

I've been helping a bit with OWASP documentation lately and there's been a surge of Indian students eagerly opening nonsensical issues and PRs and all of the communication and code is clearly 100% LLMs. They'll even talk back and forth with each other. It's a huge headache for the maintainers. I suggested following what Ghostty does where everything starts as discussions - only maintainers create issues, and PRs can…

I seem to remember there was a large (indian?) educational YouTuber who did a tutorial on how to use Git where they forked a FOSS repo, made a change to the README.md and then made a PR. This caused a huge influx of garbage PRs for that particular repo and other FOSS repos.

The typo PR's are top-cringe.
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