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Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

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Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#71

Post by jshier »

JasonADrury wrote: post #70
jshier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the courts have repeated ruled that "aware of the Constitutional violation" means knowing that the exact action being observed had previously been ruled a violation of Constitutional rights. It's essentially impossible to prove, which is one of the reasons we don't see that offense prosecuted.

In the Chauvin case all three of the bystanders were sent to prison by federal courts specifically for civil rights violations stemming from their failure to intervene as Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd in front of them.

Exception that proves that rule. It took national protests over months, during COVID, to drive that case through to conviction.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#72

Post by monster_truck »

clickety_clack wrote: post #61

There’s a massive lack of gardai (the Irish word for police) in Ireland, and you’ll be waiting for the better part of an hour if you call them. But by all means, let’s forget about the types of basic “safety in your own home” type of policing and focus on creating a cyberpolice force instead.

I know you want to think, or have been told to think that the reason this happens is because they need more cops.

Brother let me assure you, more cops will not help. I have lived in cities with more than twice as many cops per 10k. Both times I actually needed one it took over 3 hours.

They were never intended to provide basic safety to you in your home. That's your job. Their job is to deal with what comes after that.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#73

Post by alistairSH »

themafia wrote: post #69
Aunche wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime This gets misrepresented on the Internet all the time. What this really means is that you can't sue the city for incompetent policemen, which is the case in basically every country. That only punishes the taxpayers after all. What is different about other countries is that they are much better at firing incompetent police.

The case in NY was police setup a sting on the subway to catch a serial stabber. Instead of stopping him they stood by and watched him attack several innocent bystanders. They were sued for incompetence. For the failed sting. The two police officers who stood and watched him get attacked were ruled to be immune because they had no duty to protect him. Point being, if police see you getting attacked, they have no duty…

And then chain that with the ridiculous "clearly established" bar for qualified immunity and it's nigh on impossible to hold police in the US accountable for what most citizens would recognize as clear malfeasance.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#74

Post by mlfreeman »

themafia wrote: post #68
budududuroiu wrote: post #8

Whenever these people ask for more power in order to "stop/prevent crime", there should be a bot that replies a list of times when the police didn't act to stop crime, despite having full knowledge of the crime occuring and potential to stop it from happening. EU member and supporter of Chat Control, Romania, had a massive scandal where a kidnapped 15 year old girl called emergency services multiple times to report s…

Or a bot that lists out all the times police have been given these powers only for them to be abused. Flock is a great example. Story after story in the local news (only there for some reason) about police officers being disciplined or fired because they stalked people using the flock system. Meanwhile not a single story where a major case was cracked by, and could only have been cracked by, the flock camera system.

Does anyone even compile these into a site?

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#76

Post by anigbrowl »

Aunche wrote: post #62
alistairSH wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, in the US, the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime (unless that person is in government custody). The courts have upheld this time and again.

> the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime This gets misrepresented on the Internet all the time. What this really means is that you can't sue the city for incompetent policemen, which is the case in basically every country. That only punishes the taxpayers after all. What is different about other countries is that they are much better at firing incompetent police.

That only punishes the taxpayers after all.

I am sick to the back teeth of this narrative that all grievances can be resolved into currency and that paying this hurts taxpayers. We can jail negligent or reckless public officials, the financial costs of investigating and compensating people are an economic incentive to promulgate better standards in the first place.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#77

Post by throwaway85825 »

alephnerd wrote: post #41
miroljub wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. Probably a coincidence that it all happens just before the World Economic Forum summit in Davos. It could be they sent the new agenda a bit earlier to allow governments to prepare themselves.

People really overestimate the WEF's influence. It's basically a fairly boring corporate conference that consists of side means and some side parties. There might be some shenanigans happening, but that happens at "nerdy" GDC as well. Years ago, we had to "invite" Register, DarkReading, SDxCentral, etc "reporters" to free booze sessions during RSA to keep them happy in the era before Nikesh Arora called out conferenc…

In a network diagram the WEF is a hyperconnected node.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#78

Post by bell-cot »

themafia wrote: post #69
Aunche wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime This gets misrepresented on the Internet all the time. What this really means is that you can't sue the city for incompetent policemen, which is the case in basically every country. That only punishes the taxpayers after all. What is different about other countries is that they are much better at firing incompetent police.

The case in NY was police setup a sting on the subway to catch a serial stabber. Instead of stopping him they stood by and watched him attack several innocent bystanders. They were sued for incompetence. For the failed sting. The two police officers who stood and watched him get attacked were ruled to be immune because they had no duty to protect him. Point being, if police see you getting attacked, they have no duty…

If you see two police on the corner and think...

Not to speak highly of the NYPD - but it is the character of most violent criminals to refrain from attacking you when police officers are standing close at hand.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#79

Post by anigbrowl »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #75

European governments see their future survival absolutely requiring a draconian level of surveillance and repression.

This isn't about European governments particularly. Cops everywhere are like this, it's a personality type. Of course they want to use tools that will make their job easier, so would you if you were a cop.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#80

Post by anigbrowl »

shevy-java wrote: post #11

What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. I never found out why this is the case, because there can be many explanations. In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. This is functional erosion of rights. I don't know of many states that counter that trend.

It's not strange. They can read technology news like anyone else, and vendors of security tools do sales campaigns like any other industry. Media says 'cybercriminals are getting away with it using this one weird trick,' people grumble about the police being useless, police say they can't stop the cybercriminals without spyware, media runs story about sympathetic pensioners losing everything to scammers because police are letting them run free, voters demand politicians do something etc etc. etc.

Also, y'all need to recognize that unbreakable personal security/ privacy/ paranoia is just not the default social position in most societies. There isn't a big conspiracy, it's a reflection of social mores we disagree with, either ideologically or through recognition that policing is often ineffective and corrupt.

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