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Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

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31–40 of 115 posts

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, in the US, the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime (unless that person is in government custody). The courts have upheld this time and again.

> (unless that person is in government custody) Someone please correct me, but do they ever much bother to protect those in custody?

Their main method of "Protecting" people in custody has been deemed a form of torture called Solitary Confinement.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#32
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it technologically impossible, but they can also come and arrest you just for using such technology. So its not really a technical problem, its a social/political one.

Sure, but then they need to send a physical person, which is expensive and impossible to scale. Making it extremely expensive is probably good enough. (Feels like we have this same discussion over and over on HN.)

[deleted]

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#33
post #18

What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. I never found out why this is the case, because there can be many explanations. In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. This is functional erosion of rights. I don't know of many states that counter that trend.

Every Western government is receiving the same briefings from its intelligence and counterintelligence agencies: these powers are needed in case the third world war starts.

They've been pushing for this stuff for ever, at least 20 years ago.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#34

What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. I never found out why this is the case, because there can be many explanations. In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. This is functional erosion of rights. I don't know of many states that counter that trend.

I believe the main reason is the current "situation" with the US. European agencies and law enforcement have relied heavily on NSA signal intelligence via low-level intelligence exchange and it has become more and more clear that this is a dangerous dependence. In a sense, the turn towards codifying and legalizing surveillance had already started with the Snowden revelations because at that time many people realized that the usual practices were basically illegal and wanted more legal certainty. At the same time, companies like Apple have increased device security a lot over the past decade.

That's my take on it. I'd love to hear other explanations. It's indeed curious why so many EU countries are pushing for increased surveillance so heavily.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that strange? Technology's proliferation decentralizes political power nexuses, making it a near-existential threat to tyrants^Wgovernments everywhere.

conversely >Technology's proliferation centralizes political power nexuses

Closed-source propriety systems certainly have this effect (subjugation), but this is not the Free technology I am talking about.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#36
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Western government is receiving the same briefings from its intelligence and counterintelligence agencies: these powers are needed in case the third world war starts.

They've been pushing for this stuff for ever, at least 20 years ago.

Different countries have made on-and-off efforts over the decades, but I'm explaining why they're all doing it right now.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#37

Whenever these people ask for more power in order to "stop/prevent crime", there should be a bot that replies a list of times when the police didn't act to stop crime, despite having full knowledge of the crime occuring and potential to stop it from happening. EU member and supporter of Chat Control, Romania, had a massive scandal where a kidnapped 15 year old girl called emergency services multiple times to report s…

From my memory this case can actually be used to support spyware, I remember all the media complaining "how is it possible that the police or the secret service can't instantly locate a phone very precisely" , same when that airplane crashed and the people were calling for help but the authorities could not get the coordinates and searched for hours , the media was demanding that the police or other services have the…

Of course it would've been spun that way, and maybe it would've worked had it not been for the police mocking the victim in the phone logs

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#38

Whenever these people ask for more power in order to "stop/prevent crime", there should be a bot that replies a list of times when the police didn't act to stop crime, despite having full knowledge of the crime occuring and potential to stop it from happening. EU member and supporter of Chat Control, Romania, had a massive scandal where a kidnapped 15 year old girl called emergency services multiple times to report s…

From my memory this case can actually be used to support spyware, I remember all the media complaining "how is it possible that the police or the secret service can't instantly locate a phone very precisely" , same when that airplane crashed and the people were calling for help but the authorities could not get the coordinates and searched for hours , the media was demanding that the police or other services have the…

It is rather jarring to be stuck in the woods with Google Maps offering turn-by-turn navigation back home while the emergency room only gets a vague triangulated position (which might be wrong entirely if the signal gets reflected off of something).

Of course these days such a system has been added. Bonus feature of the (at least American) feature: the system can be activated remotely, even if you're not actually calling in an emergency. The European ETSI spec is pretty funny, it basically comes down to sending an SMS to a Secret Number with a Secret Format containing your coordinates to prevent abuse (both can be found very easily); at least that supposedly only activates when you dial the emergency services.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#39

What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. I never found out why this is the case, because there can be many explanations. In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. This is functional erosion of rights. I don't know of many states that counter that trend.

> What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time.

Probably a coincidence that it all happens just before the World Economic Forum summit in Davos. It could be they sent the new agenda a bit earlier to allow governments to prepare themselves.

Re: Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, in the US, the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime (unless that person is in government custody). The courts have upheld this time and again.

> (unless that person is in government custody) Someone please correct me, but do they ever much bother to protect those in custody?

Generally speaking, yes. I have worked with the corrections side of law enforcement in the US and don't internationally for quite a few years at this point. The correction side is a different beast than the police side in many ways, so I definitely want to meet clear that my personal experience is limited in scope to that. However, generally speaking I have seen that the majority of corrections staff take protection very seriously. There are individual officers that can be scum, and ideally they should be bounced out of there. But realistically, it's a human problem. I've known plenty of software engineers that were cavalier with people's personal information in ways I think can be just as damaging. On the whole though, the majority of software engineers I know take protecting that information quite seriously.
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