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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#461

Post by dv_dt »

miki123211 wrote: post #344
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

I think what's even more important is that the costs for founding and maintaining such an LLC should scale with revenue, including scaling to 0 . In many EU countries, you still have to pay social security and/or health insurance, even if your company brings in no revenue. This isn't supposed to be a problem, as you're not really supposed to officially start a business unless you cross specific revenue thresholds. Ho…

If they were being pragmatic about it, the more universal healthcare systems offered by many EU nations should be a massive advantage for startups vs nations like the US, but the wrong regulations around company operations negates it or worse.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#462

Post by wolvoleo »

usrnm wrote: post #430
wolvoleo wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare. It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low si…

Refusal to learn and change, even if it means learning from people you disagree with, is simply arrogant and stupid. The US is the biggest economy in the world with the strongest tech sector in the world, they are obviously doing something right. And many personal accounts from people doing business in the EU in this thread show that the EU is doing at least some things wrong.

We don't care only about money. We're doing pretty great, we have some issues like housing cost but the US has those too. I'm happy with my life and I don't feel like there's something missing that having more money would fix. Less employment and welfare rights would cause a lot of worry and uncertainty though.

It's not all about economy and getting ever more more more like the US. I'm pretty happy living here and I would never move to the US. In fact right now I wouldn't even visit it but hopefully the status quo doesn't last forever.

And it's not all about business. But about people, the employees.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#463

Post by pegasus »

8964689797595 wrote: post #446
jorge-d wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong on so many levels. The German economy profits _a lot_ from the membership. You can't just look at the monetary in/out flows to/from EU accounts but to the system as a whole.

[flagged]

They probably didn't list any because estimating the upsides versus the downsides is what it's about, and that's very hard to quantify. Suggesting, like you seem to, that there are no upsides to the German economy whatsoever, is just not a serious argument so doesn't actually deserve a serious answer.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#464

Post by cm2012 »

47282847 wrote: post #32
embedding-shape wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a German problem. When I last set up a company in Sweden I literally went to web UI and clicked "Create Company" basically, filled in some details and it was done. Similar experience in Spain, fill out 2-3 forms and it's done. How much more process could the German government really add here? Reviews and interviews, or what exactly is the bureaucracy you're complaining about here?

Company formation in Germany requires identity and statute checks by a notary. You can nowadays do that remotely via video appointment but it’s still a bit of a hassle and delay. It’s not as bad as people claim, or rather: if people already have difficulties with that step I wonder how much fun they will have with “bureaucracy” later on. Frankly, I understand how one can be annoyed at certain requirements but how do…

Friction is a death by 1000 cuts. Its a week here, an in person appointment there, another 2 weeks to send in a different ID - all of that adds up to an environment where people are reluctant to do anything new.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#465

Post by harperlee »

miroljub wrote: post #374
sevenzero wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the idiotic "our tax money is spent for bicycle lanes in foreign countries" mindsets many right wingers share in Germany.

Just because you accusse people to be "right wingers" because they don't want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries doesn't make them wrong. If you want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries, go start a fund an fund them privately. For the people that don't know the topic: - yes, German taxpayers are indeed funding bicycle lanes in foreign countries - it's not the only waste of money going to foreign countr…

Funding other member states to be able to grow may be labeled waste, or investment on creating new markets for Germany.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#466

Post by socksy »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #437
wolvoleo wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare. It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low si…

> We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. Only lazy people want to be employed for life somewhere. All the benefits, no responsibility.

Good thing then that there's a range of options between being let go immediately for no reason and companies being forced to employ bad employees for life.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#467

Post by matesz »

sevenzero wrote: post #322
matesz wrote: post #216

My Dear German friends, please accept that EU-inc is a massive boost for EU competitiveness. Continuing to block progress here only proves that the EU is good at making promises on paper but fails to deliver real change. The reason this "28th regime" actually works—and bypasses the previous vetos — is that it’s optional. It doesn’t try to force Germany to change its local GmbH laws or kill the notary system overnight…

[flagged]

Its important to understand the context. Germany, and Europe in general, is basically like a falling empire. It will be less and less significant and life won't get any better than it is relatively speaking. The same will almost certainly happen with the US, but first goes Europe.

Unfortunately citizens and therefore ruling elites of empires fueled by relatively extremely high standard of living for decades in comparison to the rest of the World always have very hard time swallowing their national pride. They have built very elaborate conceptual framework of linking their nationality to the level of relative success, fueled by politicians who want to make people feel good again about their nationality.

Just look at the news, almost everything directly or indirectly is linked to the concept "nation".

And in almost all cases of empires a natural consequence of their fall is war. So, it is very important to set expectations right.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#468

Post by cael450 »

miroljub wrote: post #363
tietjens wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Massive German tax money is already today used for non-national interests. Please elaborate. You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational.

> You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational. Germany is the biggest net contributor to the EU. The money comes from German taxpayers, who receive disproportionately little value in return.

This is the same argument Trump is using to blow up America's position in NATO.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#469

Post by sschueller »

academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

I agree on application costs to be less but I believe a company needs to bring some capital. In Switzerland you need to pony up 20k in startup capital for a GmbH or 100k for an AG (ignoring the 50k work around), it belongs to the company but guarantees some security for customers and vendors that you aren't just going to take their money and run.

In Switzerland you don't even need to collect VAT until you make at least 100k a year so I find requiring some capital ok.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#470

Post by wolvoleo »

galangalalgol wrote: post #431
wolvoleo wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare. It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low si…

Free healthcare and social welfare I'm in agreement on. But why does at will employment need to conflict with that? The problems of wage values, food and shelter, and healthcare can be handled completely independently of employment. If someone feels it is too easy to do nothing without requiring employment to gain some of those benefits, you can have the government as an employer of last resort. But making it easy fo…

At will employment is something we'll never accept here. We don't need the threat of having nothing from one day to the next.

It's good for billionaires but not for actual people that matter.

Running a business is not something everyone should have to do anyway. It's good if it's hard. That keeps the cowboys at bay.

I would never ever want to own a business. I don't need that uncertainty. I just want a stable wage.

The prevailing idea here is that the US is best at everything and its model will always win. But in reality it's been in decline for a long time and it's become a pretty toxic society I don't want to see here in Europe. Trump is only a symptom of that but not the cause. The real cause is a top layer (which many HN commenters are part of) that is getting ever richer and a huge disadvantaged mass that is stagnant or declining. Their anger is what drives MAGA. Also called late stage capitalism. Going even more capitalist is not the way to fix or prevent that.

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