Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#11

Post by nlh » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 5:57 PM UTC

Great post. And a good point. But there are some exceptions to this.

I'm what you'd call a "super casual" twitter user. That is to say, I don't really use it other than for occasional real-time updates on things (After the NYC-area earthquake last year, Twitter was the first place I went to see what was up. And during the debates this year, I had fun following along with #debate.)

I can't be alone. And in those (rather specific, yes I know) cases, there is some opportunity for advertising, because just like when I use Google, I was searching for something, and to the OPs point, more open to buying that umbrella.

(For example, if a fact-checking group like PoliFact were advertising for me to follow them during my #debate search and "get real-time fact-checking", that's something I'd have totally subscribed to. Meanwhile I found them through sorting through the tweets instead.)

So I suppose it boils down to the same thing as with Google -- I don't really want to see ads when I'm reading Gmail, but I certainly don't mind them when I'm searching. Twitter could focus on promoted tweets / accounts during searches and I don't think they'd have the umbrella-in-a-synagogue problem.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#12

Post by dshipper » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 6:06 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #11

Great post. And a good point. But there are some exceptions to this. I'm what you'd call a "super casual" twitter user. That is to say, I don't really use it other than for occasional real-time updates on things (After the NYC-area earthquake last year, Twitter was the first place I went to see what was up. And during the debates this year, I had fun following along with #debate.) I can't be alone. And in those (rath…

That's a really interesting point. I think Twitter search is one area where the product is grossly lacking. And you're right, targeting ads in the search area would definitely capture intent.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#13

Post by philco » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

Great post Dan!

Not sure I completely agree, though. If you're talking to people who are socializing, eating lox, and talking about how nice the weather is...coming in trying to sell an umbrella is interruptive at best.

If, however, you find a bunch of people huddled under a bus stop because they dont' have umbrella's, and are all waiting for the rain to stop....then coming in trying to sell an umbrella is genius.

It's all about targeting correctly. If a bunch of people are on Twitter complaining about how their new Ford is having alternator problems, and you run a mechanic shop that specializes in fixing them on the cheap, then you're providing value. Right?

I think it just has to do with how advertisers approach this, and how good of a job they do in crafting their copy, and their target demographic. Let's hope for our sake (and theirs), that they spend a real amount of time focused on that problem and don't mess it up.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#14

Post by dshipper » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 6:33 PM UTC

philco wrote: post #13

Great post Dan! Not sure I completely agree, though. If you're talking to people who are socializing, eating lox, and talking about how nice the weather is...coming in trying to sell an umbrella is interruptive at best. If, however, you find a bunch of people huddled under a bus stop because they dont' have umbrella's, and are all waiting for the rain to stop....then coming in trying to sell an umbrella is genius. It…

Completely agree with you. The basic point of the article is that advertisers have to be sensitive to the context shift between selling things on Google and selling things on Twitter.

It's possible to create a successful marketing campaign on Twitter, but it probably looks very different than a successful one on Adwords.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#15

Post by tomrod » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 6:40 PM UTC

Fantastic! I enjoyed your article Dan. That's a very helpful way of considering the twitter ecosystem.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#16

Post by shpiel » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 7:14 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #7

Curiously, traditional (Orthodox) Jews cannot use umbrellas on the Sabbath Day. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_orthodox_Jews_allowed_to_use_a...

Or buy things

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#17

Post by shpiel » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

dshipper wrote: post #5

msrpotus wrote: post #4

Twitter could work as a way to engage in a conversation. For instance, if I tweet about going shopping for clothing, I wouldn't mind if Old Navy tweeted a coupon at me. That's much more complicated but if they could figure something like that out, the ads would be much more useful.

That's interesting. It's a fine line though. I think I'd get annoyed pretty quickly if after every tweet I was solicited for something. I've been thinking about a real-world analogue for these types of social communities (e.g. synagogues) that actually makes money. The only one I can come up with is something like a fraternity. You pay dues, and have a local chapter that's also part of a larger national organization.…

Both fraternities and synagogues are examples of non-profit organizations.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#18

Post by chaz » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

The guys selling umbrellas on the street are not creating a brand -- they're direct response advertising. As you mentioned, they're anonymous and disappear when you don't need them.

Brand is different. I don't turn on the TV when I'm ready to eat fast food, drink a beer, or buy a car. But McDonald's, Budweiser, and Ford all advertise on TV so that I'll remember them when I do.

Promoted searches and tweets work more like display/brand ads than direct response, where advertisers associate themselves with certain accounts and keywords. I think we'll see more innovation in this space as they figure it out, but I do agree that treating Twitter advertising like Google advertising is going to lead to disappointment.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#19

Post by wbachnik » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 7:21 PM UTC

msrpotus wrote: post #4

Twitter could work as a way to engage in a conversation. For instance, if I tweet about going shopping for clothing, I wouldn't mind if Old Navy tweeted a coupon at me. That's much more complicated but if they could figure something like that out, the ads would be much more useful.

That's what "lead generation" in Mila(http://mila.com) is doing: tweets matching vendor's products/services are presented as potential leads for the salesperson to act upon. When you tweet "looking for a cool new shirt" Old Navy would see your message and could give you a coupon.

Re: Selling Umbrellas In A Synagogue

#20

Post by domainregistry » Thu, Oct 18, 2012, 7:22 PM UTC

"You go to services every Saturday."

Funny that you would use "Goldsteins" as an example. As you probably know there is a Goldsteins Funeral Home in Philly. And your example is dead on to how people in the funeral business operate. They belong and attend. But here's the thing. In order for Goldstein to get the burial business (or service, whatever) they have to continue to attend social functions lest they are forgotten. All the time (similar to your example "every saturday". Otherwise, while they do have a benefit from a memorable name (so someone might be more likely to call when seeing their other advertising) if they are not in front of people regularly (and willing to take the time and effort) they aren't going to get the benefit.