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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#191

Post by carlosjobim »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #150
carlosjobim wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labour is much more expensive in the USA, and other taxes are very comparable. And the USA is the startup capital of the world.

Labor cost has many aspects. One big and key difference between the EU and the US is that due to socialist policies in the EU, it is much much harder to fire people when the business takes a downturn. And this is why companies are not that eager to hire as fast as needed because it is very hard for them to downsize. In the US, this provides the companies with the levers they need to maintain a functioning business in…

In practice you can hire people for at least 6 months in Europe on a "fire-at-will" contract. But yes, you're probably right. Down-sizing is not a problem in Europe, but you can't easily choose which people you want to let go, which is a problem.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#192

Post by lotsofpulp »

formerly_proven wrote: post #177
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor cost has many aspects. One big and key difference between the EU and the US is that due to socialist policies in the EU, it is much much harder to fire people when the business takes a downturn. And this is why companies are not that eager to hire as fast as needed because it is very hard for them to downsize. In the US, this provides the companies with the levers they need to maintain a functioning business in…

I don’t know about other countries but e.g. in germany the law all but forces you to fire higher performing people before lower performing folks, with additional protections for especially unproductive employees. And that’s for when your business is sufficiently struggling to justify layoffs under the law. The US hire-and-fire approach is then the other extreme. The optimal amount of worker protection is somewhere in…

The optimal amount of protection provided by businesses is none. Employees are like any other costs, that may need to change based on supply and demand.

The government should be providing protection, by way of providing education and welfare to support reallocation of labor, and taxing businesses to do it. Requiring each business to do it and then policing them is far less efficient for all parties.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#193

Post by veltas »

embedding-shape wrote: post #135
dbuxton wrote: post #118

Of all the challenges you face as a startup, the legal entity you choose is possibly the least consequential. Just choose a jurisdiction where investors understand how the legals work (Delaware C-corp, UK Ltd is OK too) and there's a finite administrative burden and/or commoditized tooling in place to help you handle it. Now, that may not work in all jurisdictions for reasons of local taxation etc (and you'll have to…

> investors understand how the legals work (Delaware C-corp, UK Ltd is OK too) Man, at least read the title of the submission, even if you're not gonna be bothered reading the contents. This is clearly about EU, incorporating in either of those two places would defeat the entire purpose :) > the legal entity you choose is possibly the least consequential I think this is a bit of the goal with EU-INC, so people don't…

> This is clearly about EU and Europe

UK is in Europe.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#194

Post by bux93 »

neximo64 wrote: post #97

Can't work legally speaking. There has to be a single sponsoring member state. Just sadly how the EU is designed. The only way would be to copy it individually so it is the same in each member state which breaks the purpose of it.

Weird. Seems to work for Airbus, Allianz, BASF, E.ON, Fresenius, LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton (and its subsidiary Dior), SAP, Schneider Electric, TotalEnergies, Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield and Vonovia.

Of course, that's the existing pan-European SE which is a public company. Needs like a few sentences changed in the existing regulation to extend that to private companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societas_Europaea

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#195

Post by carlosjobim »

pjc50 wrote: post #159
carlosjobim wrote: post #134

There is nothing hindering European startups to raise money from all over Europe. Except that Europeans hate to invest in real businesses and love investing in real estate. American startups and businesses get investor money from all over the world, including from Europe. Willingness to invest in startups depends on the downstream of willingness to invest in business in general. If venture capital investors know that…

> They should ask themselves why European entrepreneurs should create their startup in Europe instead of in America. What if the founders can't get a visa? The assumption that the world is flat, trade is free, and people can just be anywhere - globalization - may not hold true for much longer.

You don't need to physically move to America to create your startup there.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#196

Post by tiborsaas »

neximo64 wrote: post #97

Can't work legally speaking. There has to be a single sponsoring member state. Just sadly how the EU is designed. The only way would be to copy it individually so it is the same in each member state which breaks the purpose of it.

Maybe the task is to make the changes to get this to work legally speaking.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#197

Post by veltas »

arka2147483647 wrote: post #127
dbuxton wrote: post #118

Of all the challenges you face as a startup, the legal entity you choose is possibly the least consequential. Just choose a jurisdiction where investors understand how the legals work (Delaware C-corp, UK Ltd is OK too) and there's a finite administrative burden and/or commoditized tooling in place to help you handle it. Now, that may not work in all jurisdictions for reasons of local taxation etc (and you'll have to…

> Delaware C-corp, UK Ltd is OK too Neither of which is in EU, which is exactly the point. Should be an EU one which is usable...

The title says "One Europe" and "Pan-European".

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#198

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

techpression wrote: post #76
embedding-shape wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well it didn’t work for the Euro What? Yes, it did work for the Euro, countries that are participating are now more equal than they were before, which is the goal. Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe Greece or someone else will truly sink the entire union, but it hasn't happened yet, so lets not confidently claim "it didn't work". > my parents putting up solar panels to offset german fears of nuclear is…

Equal in that hey suffer together? When even the SEK outperforms the EUR in times of distress you know it’s incredibly bad. Is it better that all of Europe sinks, maybe, but I’m happy I’m not losing my job because of pension plans in France or financial neglect in Greece, and I’m sure they would say the same if roles were reversed. And to be clear, it’s not about the people, but how governing is done. The same boat i…

> When even the SEK outperforms the EUR in times of distress you know it’s incredibly bad.

Currencies aren’t an asset. They don’t “outperform”.

If the Yuan had “outperformed” the Chinese economic system would have collapsed.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#199

Post by mfld »

jcmartinezdev wrote: post #140
mfld wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In case you do not have big investors, just register as an individual entrepreneur, get a bank account and get going! It can be turned into a LLC/GmbH later if business goes well. Also taxes will be much easier. Just get one of the countless apps where you add invoices, and they generate tax reports for you. With an LLC or when employing other people, getting a tax consultant is advised. IMO, they are not exp…

Can you recommend a tax consultant that charges 200 EUR/month including preparing the yearly statements? I’m nearly at 3.5k/year and I have barely 10 invoices a month that I need to process between incoming and outgoing lol

It's a good price because the yearly statements for an LLC/GmbH are costly. We pay about 200/mo for accounting - with some more invoices :) -, 100/mo for payrolls but also the yearly statement alone is more than 2k. You can save that by not having an LLC - I personally think the risk in many software businesses is quite low. And some risks must be accepted as an entrepreneur...

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#200

Post by veltas »

graemep wrote: post #102
veltas wrote: post #88

It says "Pan-European" everywhere, but would this include the UK?

Its obviously EU - so not the UK, or Norway or Switzerland or Russia... I agree it is Eu-wide or pan-EU rather than pan European. Its probably not going to solve the problems it sets out to given all the differences between EU countries legal systems, tax, regulation etc.

It's not obvious to me at all, that's why I asked, precisely because of the use of "pan-European".
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