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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#41

Post by rsynnott »

nottorp wrote: post #25

> with a single and simple set of rules that will apply seamlessly all over our Union For one, I'm worried about what simple means. Likely something that will not make it as cheap to operate in every EU country, but make it as expensive to do that. Also, whatever the EU commission/council/whatever they call themselves in order to not call themselves government decides has to be translated into local legislation by al…

> For one, I'm worried about what simple means. Likely something that will not make it as cheap to operate in every EU country, but make it as expensive to do that.

I mean, if that's the case, no-one will use that structure.

In general, having a single set of rules makes things cheaper. That is the whole basis of standardisation.

> Also 9 of the 27 will take years to finish the process.

You're thinking of directives. I'd assume this will be a regulation (quick guide to the differences here: https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law... )

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#42

Post by lm28469 »

noosphr wrote: post #28
embedding-shape wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a German problem. When I last set up a company in Sweden I literally went to web UI and clicked "Create Company" basically, filled in some details and it was done. Similar experience in Spain, fill out 2-3 forms and it's done. How much more process could the German government really add here? Reviews and interviews, or what exactly is the bureaucracy you're complaining about here?

It takes 8 weeks from start to finish to be able to get paid for your first sale as a German limited liability company. People outside of Germany really have no idea how sclerotic the state is. Mean while Germans suffer from the brain damage of having lived there their whole lives and don't see a problem with this. If you think brain damage is too strong a word, the last time I brought it up a bunch of Germans came o…

> It takes 8 weeks from start to finish to be able to get paid for your first sale as a German company.

You can bill as soon as you started the process afaik

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#43

Post by bryanrasmussen »

I mean, Denmark used to have LLC's and outlawed them some years ago (a thing that my accountant said, paraphrasing "look at all these thieving lawyers getting rich"), so this will mean that LLC's would be allowed again in Denmark?

It seems somehow untrustworthy this >Our entrepreneurs, the innovative companies, will be able to register a company in any Member State within 48 hours – fully online.

which sounds like not everyone will be allowed to do this? or is it "our" like European is our.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#44

Post by techpression »

causalscience wrote: post #29
techpression wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Swede the third one is terrifying, unifying the energy market has been catastrophic for us, both price and environment wise. The latest is added taxes due to choke points designed by EU from the first place..

Wanna tell us more? Why has unifying the energy market been catastrophic for Sweden?

Having to pay more because of Germany going fossil fuel like crazy. When there’s no wind and it’s dark they cause most of EU to suffer since the cost of their coal plants are so high. We also send a lot of green energy out of the country only to import coal powered from Denmark (not as major, mostly happens due to high consumptions) And we’re also getting a price spike fee, don’t dare to put on the dish washer when your neighbor is!

All this in a country where electricity was almost free (to be fair, our dismantling of nuclear doesn’t help here)

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#45

Post by a_ba »

nottorp wrote: post #25

> with a single and simple set of rules that will apply seamlessly all over our Union For one, I'm worried about what simple means. Likely something that will not make it as cheap to operate in every EU country, but make it as expensive to do that. Also, whatever the EU commission/council/whatever they call themselves in order to not call themselves government decides has to be translated into local legislation by al…

Maybe the implementation will be challenging in one aspect or another but are there any reasons why you would you rather keep the current patchwork?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#46

Post by brabel »

causalscience wrote: post #29
techpression wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Swede the third one is terrifying, unifying the energy market has been catastrophic for us, both price and environment wise. The latest is added taxes due to choke points designed by EU from the first place..

Wanna tell us more? Why has unifying the energy market been catastrophic for Sweden?

Sweden has plenty of cheap hydropower. But as prices are now tied to countries like Germany which made catastrophic decisions around energy, Swedes have to pay much more than if Sweden had an independent energy market.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#47

Post by mono442 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #37
mono442 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy is expensive because burning fossil fuels is expensive due to taxes. A coal power plant pays around two times more for emissions than for the coal itself. They're trying to solve a problem which they have created themselves in the first place.

So you suggestion is to remove the taxes and go back to mostly using coal for power? Or what's the suggestion here? Because those taxes are there because of the pollution, so unless you have better way of getting rid of the pollution yet using coal for power, I'm not sure there is something better than trying to tax it away so other source can be focused by business and industry instead.

Capping the price of CO2 emissions at a more reasonable level like 10 - 20 euro/t CO2 just like it was 10 years ago could be a decent compromise.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#48

Post by embedding-shape »

paintbox wrote: post #34
3rodents wrote: post #12

Seems like a broader version of what Estonia are already doing with e-residency[1]. Registering a company online in a few hours is already easy in a few jurisdictions around the world (e.g: the U.K.[2]) so this isn’t a particularly revolutionary but the intent it signals is good. [1] https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/ [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/companies-house

Ease of incorporation is indeed not revolutionary, but is certainly a good direction. What is revolutionary (in context of EU of course) is easier business operation across different countries, a real bottleneck for EU SMEs.

> business operation across different countries, a real bottleneck for EU SMEs

Is it actually a "real bottleneck" for EU SMEs? Granted, I've only participated in help growing 3 companies from the scale of 3-4 developers > ~100-150 and from national sales to international, but "going worldwide" or "EU wide" was never the bottleneck we had. The most tricky part was figuring out exactly how to do VAT for every single country, but after a session with a accountant + setting up the guidelines + creating a .csv, that's basically it. Besides that, it was basically smooth sailing.

Today I'm sure there even are hosted services that does all of that stuff automatically for you, probably with Stripe integration as well.

What exactly is that bottleneck you're referring to?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#49

Post by jcmartinezdev »

lnsru wrote: post #26
jcmartinezdev wrote: post #2

I really looking forward to this! I love being in the EU and I really like living in Germany. But creating and operating a small company in Germany is a nightmare, I hope this can give smaller EU companies agility and frictionless setup and operation so they can focus on building products and providing services to their customers.

Can you elaborate more? I am self employed electrician in Bavaria using simple Gewerbe. It is straightforward at the beginning. Literally hundreds of webpages describe the procedure. It is obvious, that growing the company into GmbH with own VAT number increases the complexity. But I haven’t seen it other way in Europe.

I had my experience with bootstrapping a self founded UG (Unternehmergesellschaft), and the process was long (about 8 weeks), involving me getting support from a company (firma.de) to help me prepare all the documentation which involved a lot of physical paperwork, then there's the visit to the notary which is required. After you do that, you need to register with the Finanzamt, and then you start finding out about all this other registries you need to pay and register to, or that you're automatically registered, but you receive separate invoices.

Any changes you need to make, adding more capital, change address, requires again, paperwork, tons of hours and again the notary.

Taxes are also quite difficult to figure out, I'm not German born, and my German is good for conversation, but to read and understand the tax has been a problem and I had to rely on very expensive tax consultants. (I know, this is my problem, not a german problem)

It's not that is hard, it's very time consuming, manual, and involves a lot of paperwork. Other countries do this much easier. Also, shutting down a company... I'm still trying to figure that out :(

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#50

Post by embedding-shape »

mono442 wrote: post #47
embedding-shape wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you suggestion is to remove the taxes and go back to mostly using coal for power? Or what's the suggestion here? Because those taxes are there because of the pollution, so unless you have better way of getting rid of the pollution yet using coal for power, I'm not sure there is something better than trying to tax it away so other source can be focused by business and industry instead.

Capping the price of CO2 emissions at a more reasonable level like 10 - 20 euro/t CO2 just like it was 10 years ago could be a decent compromise.

Decent compromise to what? The group who want to pollute the world because it's cheaper? Doesn't sound like a compromise many of us would want.
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