Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#531

Post by BeetleB » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:50 PM UTC

kulahan wrote: post #47

qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

Not sure about 4 and 9, but the rest are available in US cars (not sure if any US car has all of them, though).

Some of these have been around for almost a decade. Not specific to EVs. I drive an ancient car (2003), but I've rented cars that have the rest.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#532

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:52 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #512

TacticalCoder wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars ... Define "modern". My 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera is now 38 years old (and I own it since 1999, it used to be my daily back in the day). It's considered one of the most reliable car ever built . Mine is sure still running strong and, well, we have to wait until year 2064 (I'll be long gone I guess) to see if any modern car proves as reliable. Also: there are…

Regardless of who's right, you are aware that this is anecdata and survival biais right? Your experience with 2 single cars is not representative of how many years cars survive in average.

There is a point there: I can buy sheet metal and a welder at home depot and repair rust in a 1950s car (if I was really doing this I'd get better metals and a better welder, but the home depot stuff will work). If the CPU on my modern car breaks I can't fix it - worse, the computer industry has a long track record of stopping production on older chips and so there is a good chance the part I need won't be available at any price. (there are a few labs that can make a one-off chip - but they start at $60,000 each and that assumes you have all the designs ready)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#533

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:52 PM UTC

jyounker wrote: post #499

lostlogin wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried working on a new car versus fixing a pre 1980’s car? Damned if I have any idea what anything is or what to do on a new one. I had a moderate chance of diagnosing and fixing my old Triunph.

If you have the right tools then it's easier than ever. To put a different spin, a friend's father was a very successful auto mechanic. What he loved about it was the mental challenge of diagnostics. The stranger the problem, the better for him. A few years back he sold his shop. There were two reasons: 1) He made f** you money, and retired decades earlier than he'd expected. 2) For many years he'd felt like the dail…

Until the computer dies and you can't get the replacement part.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#534

Post by kakacik » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:53 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #512

TacticalCoder wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars ... Define "modern". My 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera is now 38 years old (and I own it since 1999, it used to be my daily back in the day). It's considered one of the most reliable car ever built . Mine is sure still running strong and, well, we have to wait until year 2064 (I'll be long gone I guess) to see if any modern car proves as reliable. Also: there are…

Regardless of who's right, you are aware that this is anecdata and survival biais right? Your experience with 2 single cars is not representative of how many years cars survive in average.

Regardless of that, what most people are after is TCO.

Something tells me, and not only me, that longevity and ease of repair of these electrical gadgets are nowhere near old ICE car we all know very well. Is it direct experience with same type of cars across several decades? Nope, but experience with electronics in general, powered by similar batteries in general and its not looking good. More electronics = more failure surface.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#535

Post by Tarq0n » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:54 PM UTC

olyjohn wrote: post #135

hnburnsy wrote: post #86

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Consumers don't realize they are getting the worst of both worlds with added weight, complexity, repairs, inefficiency, and costs along with potential reliability (ex-Toyota) Not to mention studies that show PHEV owners frequently don't plug in.

Well those owners are idiots. That says nothing about the car. You can't exclude Toyota when you make the claim that hybrids are unreliable and inefficient either. They have proven that they can be reliable and efficient. Hybrids aren't running around doing 30 miles a day with a 300 mile battery like most EVs. Talk about inefficient!

The problem is the limited charging infrastructure. Hybrid owners don't need to plug in for the vehicle to function so they yield available chargers to actual EVs. To get past this you would need ubiquitous charging infra.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#536

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #366

david-gpu wrote: post #343

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Meanwhile, bicycles and e-bikes cost a fraction of a car.

Not sure if you are familiar with the built-environment in America, but there’s effectively no biking infrastructure and people are openly hostile towards cyclists who try.

Depends on where you live. There are a lot of cities in North America that have biking infrastructure. As a general rule, the worse the winters the better the biking infrastructure. (you need to get to Minneapolis or Canada to see it)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#537

Post by carlgreene » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #307

randerson wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake e…

The thing is, driving on the road is not supposed to be fun. One should go to a racetrack (or simulator) to have fun. Unless you live in a really remote and desertic place, there are just too much people on the road nowadays.

I agree with this for the most part, though there are times and with specific cars that you can have a blast. I can have a lot of fun in an old M Coupe, or Miata.

I used to have a GT3...it was a dream car of mine and I finally got it. The sad reality was that in order to have fun with it on public roads I was either going to kill myself/someone else, or go to jail. The only way to really experience that car in a responsible way was to go to the track. Which I just flat out didn't have the time to do with young kids.

Things were very different 20-30 years ago. Roads were less crowded and people were much more respectful on the road. Now, especially where I live, it's a free for all Mad Max cosplay.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#538

Post by randerson » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

maxdo wrote: post #261

randerson wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake e…

You're just religious about your own preferences. Prosche specifically is facing huge losses, and with this strategy is doomed to die. There are already rumors of potential bancrupcy. EVs grew 20% globally in 2025, with developing markets surging 40%+. When EVs under $100,000 can hit sub-2.5-second 0–60 mph (0–100 km/h), all this fake "benefit" talk about exhaust notes and luxury engine refinement sounds exactly like…

EVs as a whole are growing. Porsche however is struggling because of their "sports car" identity. Taycan sales dropped 22% year-over-year [0], and their 2025 EV sales only rose because the Macan EV is new and they discontinued the gas one in the EU. (Even then: Half of all Macan buyers worldwide went for the 11-year-old gas design over the EV.)

The market for EV sports cars is soft. The Rimac Nevera R broke 24 performance world records and yet nobody wants to buy it [1]. Even the CEO of Rimac has said people want an engine sound. Meanwhile Ferrari can launch an even more expensive gas car and it sells out before its officially announced [2].

I'm pro-EV and my partner owns one. They are practical appliances that are perfect for the 90% of people who just want to get from A to B. But the stats show that it's not just my personal preferences. The average sports car buyer wants an engine and exhaust.

0. https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2026/company/porsche-deliver...

1. https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/slow-selling-nevera-is-a-s...

2. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ferrar...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#539

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #309

nostromo wrote: post #214

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Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field. I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

Yes, but China has always been straightforward in that they believe in protectionism. It's part of their system. In contrast, in the West (at least until a few years ago), we have been fed the discourse that free market without protectionism is the best model, and protectionist countries are sabotaging themselves. And I don't know how it was in the US, but in the EU this caused hardship to many people. Entire countri…

There has long been a strong undercurrent of people who are for protectionism. Remember Ross Perot (many reading this were not even born in 1992 when he got popular as a third party presidential candidate) and his Giant sucking sound?

there are many people in America who don't believe in protectionism, but we lost this time.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#540

Post by linksnapzz » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

ssl-3 wrote: post #259

linksnapzz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's >available elsewhere, like we did with Japan No, that's not what happened. Japanese manufacturers made cars in the US, to match US tastes. Japanese cars as sold in Japan, were not models Americans would buy. >In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like >the last round did. It'll end with...Chinese cars made…

That's not the history that I recall. Let's look at Honda, just as an example. Honda started selling cars in the US in 1970, with their quirky, tiny, Japan-made N600. The Civic didn't happen until 1973, and it was also a Japanese-built car. Bigger than the N600 but still very small by American standards, it was the right car at the right time for the oil crisis the US was beginning to face. They sold a lot of Civics…

Total Civic sales in 1979 were less than 10% of the # of execrable X-body Chevy Citations, Pontiac Phoenixes & Buick Skylarks that GM moved. Civics were still a niche.