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A Social Filesystem

overreacted.io

161–170 of 243 posts

Re: A Social Filesystem

#161

This article goes into a lot of detail, more than is really needed to get the point across. Much of that could have been moved to an appendix? But it's a great metaphor. Someone should write a user-friendly file browser for PDS's so you can see it for yourself. I'll add that, like a web server that's just serving up static files, a Bluesky PDS is a public filesystem. Furthermore it's designed to be replicated, like a…

My goal with writing is generally to move things out of my head in the shape that they existed in my head. If it's useful but too long, I trust other people to pick what they find valuable, riff on it, and so on. >Someone should write a user-friendly file browser for PDS's so you can see it for yourself. You can skip to the end of the article where I do a few demos: https://overreacted.io/a-social-filesystem/#up-in-t…

fwiw, I don't agree. These detailed articles are excellent.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#162
> Identity -- This is a difficult problem.

My hope is that in 5 years, I will not have anything in my feeds that have not been signed in a way that I can assign a trust level.

Here in the Nordics, we are already seeing messaging apps such as [hudd] that require government issued ID to sign in. I want this to spread to everything from podcasts and old-school journalism to the soccer-club newsletter, so that I can always connect a piece of information back to a responsible source.

[hudd]: (https://about.hudd.dk/))

Re: A Social Filesystem

#163

This article goes into a lot of detail, more than is really needed to get the point across. Much of that could have been moved to an appendix? But it's a great metaphor. Someone should write a user-friendly file browser for PDS's so you can see it for yourself. I'll add that, like a web server that's just serving up static files, a Bluesky PDS is a public filesystem. Furthermore it's designed to be replicated, like a…

My goal with writing is generally to move things out of my head in the shape that they existed in my head. If it's useful but too long, I trust other people to pick what they find valuable, riff on it, and so on. >Someone should write a user-friendly file browser for PDS's so you can see it for yourself. You can skip to the end of the article where I do a few demos: https://overreacted.io/a-social-filesystem/#up-in-t…

This was a great article. Have you got any thoughts on Farcaster and its Snapchain?

Re: A Social Filesystem

#164

I've been thinking of this for some time, conceptually, but perhaps from a more fundamental angle. I think the idea of "files" is pretty dated and can be thrown out. Treat everything as data blobs (inspired by PerKeep[0]) addressed by their hashes and many of the issues described in the article just aren't even a thing. If it really makes sense, or for compatibility sake, relevant blobs can be exposed through a files…

It's bold to say users don't want apps when the expressed preferences are so strongly for apps that "App Store" is a well known brand.

The word app is short for application, which in this context is just a synonym for capability. People have tried breaking apps apart into more fine grained capabilities before and it never worked (OpenDoc and OLE being two well known examples). Brand names matter, they have value to people. YouTube isn't an abstract collection of decomposable capabilities, it's a brand that summarizes numerous unarticulated pieces of information, like its commenting culture, what kind of content is allowed and what isn't, etc.

> I'd like to lookup certain words in some of the messages, then perhaps share something relevant from it.

This is already a built-in feature on macOS. If I right click in your message "Look up PerKeep" is literally the first command, and if I click it I get a nice info window telling me what it is that I can copy/paste from. There is nothing to solve here.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#165
post #92

> Apps may come and go, but files stay—at least, as long as our apps think in files. yes: https://www.swyx.io/data-outlasts-code-but all lasting work is done in files/data (can be parsed permissionlessly, still useful if partially corrupted), but economic incentives keep pushing us to keep things in code (brittle, dies basically when one of maintainer|buildtools|hardware substrate dies). when standards emerge (forcin…

Indeed. My first reaction was: > Files are the source of truth—the apps would reflect whatever’s in your folder. Now that the "app" is a web site that supports itself with advertising revenue, it has no incentive whatsoever to work this way.

There was never any such incentive. MS Office formats were undocumented for years because MS had no incentive to document them. Merely using files did not help at all. Actually the vast majority of all file formats have never been open. Think about all the custom file formats used by video games, for instance.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#166
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I don't understand the driving force here. I have all of the raw image files that I've uploaded to Instagram. I can screenshot or download the versions that I created in their editor. Likewise for any text I've published anywhere. I prefer this arrangement, where I have the raw data in my personal filesystem and I (to an extent) choose which projections of it are published where on the internet. An IG follow…

For me, part of it is that we have no power collectively against products turning their back on users because coordination to "export data all at once and then import it into specific other place" is near-impossible. So this creates a perverse cycle where once you capture enough of the market, competition has very little chance unless they change the category entirely. What AT enables is forking products with their d…

It feels like file formats and protocols is the wrong prism through which to view this. What users actually want is the ability to move as much data as possible from point A to point B, whilst remapping it as much as possible to meet the different features and identities of point B. A unified data format is actually a hindrance for meeting that need because it boils it all down to a lowest common denominator. A simple data pump utility that just copies data back and forth, with lots of special case logic like "X has a character limit of 5000, Y has a character limit of 500 so I'll truncate and add a link to the original post on X", is going to work far better for this use case.

More generally I feel like you kinda missed the point of filing systems in your first writeup. The moment you say "posts don't have natural names", ok, that's a serious problem that should put a halt to the entire concept. A file is nothing but a natural name for a byte array and a little bit of metadata. That's why we think of file managers and explorers when we think of what files are all about: lists of names. It's also why people directly use files for relatively few things - they were a big deal in the early days of personal computing because the killer apps for it were direct translation of physical office tasks. It's mostly but not entirely possible to come up with natural names for office documents (the gap is in suffixes like "draft final v3__real final draft.docx"). That's why we use analogies for 1950s paperful office objects like files and manila folders to begin with. But most computing tasks even back then weren't oriented around documents, they were oriented around database records and the user interface was just screens, or possibly direct SQL. It's a remarkable gap in our infrastructure that there is no agreed on file format for a SQL result set. Maybe Arrow is that format.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#167

POSSE and AT Protocol can be understood as interoperable marketplaces. Platforms like Reddit and Instagram already function this way: the product is user content, the payment is attention, and the platform’s cut is ads or behavioral data. Dan argues that this structure is not inevitable. If social data is treated as something people own and store themselves, applications stop being the owners of social graphs and bec…

not sure if you understood the article, isn't the whole point to own your data as "it's just a filesystem". Reddit, Instagram, etc. are the total opposite.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#168
Amazing write-up. Owing to your data, a standardized protocol (such as the AT Protocol) is so great! It's like markdown, everything is basically built on files (but cleverly architected so that it works decentralized across the web too!).

I wrote a little along the same lines on «Well Being in Times of Algorithms» at https://www.ssp.sh/blog/well-being-algorithms/ (or HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46352747).

Re: A Social Filesystem

#169

But how do you get people to actually want this? This stuff is pretty niche even within tech.

I think the opportunity is huge, that a new social media without the current flaws will emerge is inevitable and this is could be part of the implementation solution but sure no real universal success. Think it probably needs to come outside of the us to have any credibility.

Re: A Social Filesystem

#170

It seems like the biggest downside of this world is iteration speed. If the AT instagram wants to add a new feature (i.e posts now support video!) then can they easily update their "file format"? How do they update it in a way that is compatible with every other company who depends on the same format, without the underlying record becoming a mess?

That's a great question! Adding new features is usually not a problem because you can always add optional fields and extend open unions. So, you just change `media: Link | Picture | unknown` to `media: Link | Picture | Video | unknown`. You can't remove things true, so records do get some deprecated fields. Re: updating safely, the rule is that you can't change which records it would consider valid after it gets used…

That's true if you define the problem as "does my parser crash" and not whether the app is perceived as working correctly. If some platform adds support for video posts, then the next thing that happens is people start making posts that are only video. Meaning that in every other client, users see what appears to be an entirely empty post. Which will be considered a bug.

This is the core argument of Moxie's seminal essay, The Ecosystem Is Moving:

https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

One of the controversial things we did with Signal early on was to build it as an unfederated service. Nothing about any of the protocols we’ve developed requires centralization; it’s entirely possible to build a federated Signal Protocol-based messenger, but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all.

That was written in 2016 but it was true then and continues to be true today. Users reject federated open platforms because the coordination costs mean they don't move as fast as proprietary centralized platforms, and they often appear broken even if technically working as designed.

Nothing about that analysis is unique to social media. It is also true of file formats. OpenOffice never took off because new features got added to Office first, so files that used those features would open in semi-corrupted ways in OpenOffice. The fact that OO represented things internally using open unions didn't matter at all.

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