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High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

bbc.com

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Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#41

Post by bouke »

zhfanlqeo wrote: post #21

The train in question is a Frecciarossa 1000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000 The Italians designed it but won't run it at more than 300km/h in Italy citing local infrastructure concerns. I guess that leaves other countries to find the edge cases. I'll be interested to find out how fast it was going during the crash.

AnsaldoBreda did also manufacture the Fyra trains for the short-lived high-speed trains here in The Netherlands. After three trains lost parts in the first month, it was banned from operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#42

Post by Symbiote »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
fsckboy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American trains are largely freight travelling long rural distances. You didn't mention it, so I presume because you didn't take it into account, so your statistics sound to me like they don't mean anything comparable.

Derailments are common is what the stats show. US derailments are largely property damage as they are freight centric, while in Europe, passenger deaths are higher due to more heavy passenger utilization. Derailment is hard to defend against.

No, they are not common. The numbers you've been given are completely wrong.

The GGP has quoted the derailments figure from the USA page, but the total accidents (including trespassers and level crossing accidents) for the EU.

The EU page they cite says there were 63 derailments in 2024.

A derailment in Europe tends to make the news even when there are no injuries.

This single accident has killed more train passengers in Spain than were killed in the whole EU in 2024 (16).

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#43

Post by cromulent »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #40
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

I feel like airplanes should be designed this way. Outside of takeoff and landing it would be pretty hard to even notice the difference, once you're seated.

At least BEA airliners used to have quite a few backward facing seats, up to half the plane.

However, there were a number of problems - people didn't like sitting in them, people didn't like hearing that their seat wasn't as safe as the others, you can't get as many rows in unless you turn them all backwards, and the structure needs to be designed differently so then you need more spares.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#44

Post by denkmoon »

rooo999 wrote: post #36
keyle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the author, but I think there was some research and it's indeed better for you if you have head support, to be facing back towards the front. If prevents a whole range of injuries, from your neck, to becoming a projectile yourself. But it's really theoretical, and does not account for the passenger in front of you headed head-first into your throat. PS: I laughed hard that xlbuttplug2 is answering to deadbabe. Th…

Not sure what kind of cars you drive but in mine all the seats face the same direction. Why would they change that when making it safer?

Consider the "booth seats" in trains and busses. So people can chat etc facing each other. If you've got a waymo with your friends why wouldn't you want the seats facing each other so you can be social, excluding this safety factor.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#45

Post by bigmeme »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #29

If you’re interested in this kind of thing, look up plainly difficult on youtube. He has more videos on train crashes than I’ve seen, and I’m embarrassed how many I’ve seen. Here’s one to get you started: https://youtu.be/VV2rIHEp5AM?si=sSBT9s49PqbLTGbt There are a lot of safety lessons embedded in these videos, which is why I like them. I also did a double take when I heard "semaphore"; its history goes back far lon…

Oh you silly duck! Semafor is a common word in a handful of other languages for things like traffic lights and such. I had to do a double take when I first saw it in a programming class.

Also hope you’re doing well it’s been a minute since our paths crossed on gdnet.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#46

Post by rurban »

singingbard wrote: post #39
zhfanlqeo wrote: post #21

The train in question is a Frecciarossa 1000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000 The Italians designed it but won't run it at more than 300km/h in Italy citing local infrastructure concerns. I guess that leaves other countries to find the edge cases. I'll be interested to find out how fast it was going during the crash.

Looks like a Frecciarossa 1000 derailed in 2020 but it was due to a manufacturer defect in a track switch replaced the night before. The defect was not caught by the manufacturer or the system operator. It was due to two crossed wires in an assembly. I know a lot more engineering goes into these trains due to the higher stakes. Japan’s high speed rail hasn’t had a fatal accident in 60 years. I’m wondering what the ca…

Actually the defect was detected by the operators, who installed it that night. They disabled the switch, but apparently this didn't reach the day shift.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#47

Post by cyode »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #29

If you’re interested in this kind of thing, look up plainly difficult on youtube. He has more videos on train crashes than I’ve seen, and I’m embarrassed how many I’ve seen. Here’s one to get you started: https://youtu.be/VV2rIHEp5AM?si=sSBT9s49PqbLTGbt There are a lot of safety lessons embedded in these videos, which is why I like them. I also did a double take when I heard "semaphore"; its history goes back far lon…

No cause is known yet, but based on the videos, what’s the most likely reason for crashes? Bad tracks? Some human error resulting in collision?

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#48

Post by jonp888 »

For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved.

So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes to try and get foreign operators banned from Spanish tracks, regardless of the facts of the matter.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#49

Post by D_Alex »

bjackman wrote: post #33
deadbabe wrote: post #8

Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.

Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this…

>It's not as safe as flying

In France and Japan, HSR has had zero fatalities in the entire period of operation.

In China, HSR had AFAIR one fatal crash, with 40 fatalities. Per passenger-mile, Chinese HSR is twice as safe as US air travel.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#50

Post by diegocg »

jonp888 wrote: post #48

For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved. So I would…

Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible
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