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Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

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Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#61

Post by asdf1280 »

ggm wrote: post #17

I would never predict this, but I think it's an idea which has occurred to many people over the years. the name WSL always hinted to me at a group inside MS who wanted Windows to BE the subsystem. I think people who have run UNIX over non-traditional FS get this vibe too. We're used to thinking it has to be some linear progression from FS to VFS to UFS to "all the other FS" and the idea "nah, I can run on NTFS just f…

IIRC, from back when I worked there, they had to name it windows subsystem for linux instead of linux subsystem for windows because there was a copyright problem with putting a term that is copyrighted by someone else (linux) first.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#62

Post by dang »

notherhack wrote: post #27

Clickbait spoiler: "I predict that within 15 years Microsoft will discontinue Windows in favor of a Windows themed Linux distribution."

Funnily enough I just edited the title to say that (shortened to fit HN's 80 char limit) and then saw your comment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1pmptO47zs

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#63

Post by wackget »

I'll consider switching to Linux when the GUI becomes as configurable as Windows 10 or earlier.

For example, this is my taskbar layout: https://i.ibb.co/1GqKH27L/taskbar-layout.png

To my knowledge, it's not possible to achieve anything like this layout on Windows 11, Linux or Mac. I did try it in various Linux distros a few times but frankly got sick of navigating the maze of window managers et cetera. I think something like XFCE came close to providing a Windows-like taskbar but it was still far, far behind what Windows NT can offer.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#64

Post by Dylan16807 »

bschwindHN wrote: post #53
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #14

As a Windows system and user-mode dev, I absolutely never understand these sorts of drive-by posts with nearly zero technical depth. If there is one thing about Windows that is really good, it is its kernel and driver architecture, and absolute plethora of user-mode libraries that come with the OS , that can be programmed against with a variety of languages from ancient to brand-new, all maintained by the vendor. Doi…

You "never understand" these posts and then list off a ton of crap I shouldn't have to do to an OS to make it usable. The default experience of using windows is downright user-hostile and it reveals the thinking of the corporation behind it. Yeah, you _can_ do all that to make it somewhat usable, but when alternatives exist that are much less of a pain, I'll be taking those.

> You "never understand" these posts and then list off a ton of crap I shouldn't have to do to an OS to make it usable.

In the context of changes Microsoft could make, that list of instructions is there for demonstration purposes. It's about how if Microsoft wanted to clean up their mess, they have a far far easier method than what's suggested in the article.

> when alternatives exist that are much less of a pain, I'll be taking those

That's a different topic from the article and the comment you replied to.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#65

Post by pseudony »

p_ing wrote: post #28
Alupis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the software and services you mentioned require Windows though - they could be made to run on Linux, and some already do. As more and more revenue shifts from desktop/servers to cloud and services, it doesn't seem too far-fetched for Microsoft to decide maintaining the entire OS stack themselves makes less and less sense. A Microsoft Windows linux distro would free up resources to focus on what makes Windows…

Exchange is very dependent on Win32 and .NET Framework. As is ODSP and Dynamics. Azure under the hood is Hyper-V with most services built upon that dependency. Yes, millions of man hours, monkies, and typewriters you could transform this to Linux. The economics aren't there when Azure/M365 keeps pulling in money running on it's current platform hand over fist.

Well, for one, you may have noticed that MS put in the work, over years, to make .NET the same implementation across all three platforms. So that’s at least one pillar of impossibility removed.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#66

Post by dzonga »

> In 2017 I predicted that most programmers would lose their employer employee bargaining power in the next 15-25 years.

even if written in retrospect - this would've been interesting to see. since likely some of the reasons wouldn't include A.I

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#67

Post by patmorgan23 »

ggm wrote: post #17

I would never predict this, but I think it's an idea which has occurred to many people over the years. the name WSL always hinted to me at a group inside MS who wanted Windows to BE the subsystem. I think people who have run UNIX over non-traditional FS get this vibe too. We're used to thinking it has to be some linear progression from FS to VFS to UFS to "all the other FS" and the idea "nah, I can run on NTFS just f…

I mean it's not totally crazy, Microsoft did rip out Window's original networking stack and replace it with BSDs (which has probably been heavily modified/evolved since then)

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#68

Post by keyle »

hougaard wrote: post #26

Because the "UX" of Windows sucks, Microsoft will switch the "Kernel" to Linux? I don't get the argument. There are parts of Windows I don't like, so I have chosen a 3rd-party (often open-source) replacement. The exact same process as I do on Linux. I don't see why I have to switch to Linux to have that freedom. (and to be honest, I don't care where the taskbar is)

This is a good point. The kernel stuff of Windows isn't really the problem.

I've been on macOS for eons, but I still hope that some day, someone at microsoft will have the balls to make a Windows Redux. Which is just Windows 7 with a coat of paint; and less stuff, installable separately; geared towards speed and not stuffings.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#69

Post by sodafountan »

nashashmi wrote: post #13
ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #4

This guy is in for a disappointing future since he seems to be unaware that Windows is more than than the consumer editions. Revenue from Windows Enterprise (which has management tools like Active Directory and backwards compatibility with non-game apps needed for large corporate deployments) and Windows Server (needed for Active Directory, Exchange, SQL Server, etc.) is still in the billions and there's nothing on t…

His take is that for consumers Microsoft will abandon windows in favor of Linux. He predicts Linux will get better. And windows will get worse in development and support. And so Microsoft will give up on windows. And that worsening trend plus abandonment plus Linux improvements will cause Microsoft supporting Linux. The probability of each event happening is high enough. But the probability of all three happening at…

Because they're a corporation that makes money. They have incentives to employ people, and the vendor lock-in with Windows is far too large to change anything at the moment or anytime in the foreseeable future. Changing Windows to become a Linux-based distro would be a massive corporate undertaking; Microsoft isn't in the business of pleasing tech-minded people. They're a business that makes money.

Linux isn't a corporation; it's really more of an idea. They don't have marketing departments or people trying to sell you licenses. They don't have vendor lock-in or active-directory or a cloud based infastructure. They don't have an entire advertising division or a search engine. There aren't any shareholders to please or paid employees to keep on payroll for government kickbacks. They're not targeting the casual, media-focused, average computer user like Microsoft, which makes a lot of money by doing so.

In my last job, I worked in a mid-sized suburban office. There weren't any "Linux reps" knocking on our door, making sure we were getting the most out of Ubuntu.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#70

Post by p_ing »

dbcurtis wrote: post #49
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #14

As a Windows system and user-mode dev, I absolutely never understand these sorts of drive-by posts with nearly zero technical depth. If there is one thing about Windows that is really good, it is its kernel and driver architecture, and absolute plethora of user-mode libraries that come with the OS , that can be programmed against with a variety of languages from ancient to brand-new, all maintained by the vendor. Doi…

> If there is one thing about Windows that is really good, it is its kernel and driver architecture, Woah, back up a bit. In the article, it looks like the blue screen is a 0x0 (iopr) exception, likely a wild jump into the weeds. But back in the day, the majority of blue screens were 0xE exceptions -- page fault in the kernel. Why? Buggy driver that didn't wire down a page and it got swapped out from under the driver…

There are performance penalties for moving drivers out of the kernel/ring 0. For some things, that matters (network, graphics), for others it doesn't, like printers.

And Microsoft has made the least stable of the drivers a recoverable fault, at least.

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