Live data from Hacker News

The recurring dream of replacing developers

caimito.net

281–290 of 535 posts

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#281
post #179
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pattern that gets missed in these discussions: every "no-code will replace developers" wave actually creates more developer jobs, not fewer. Doesn't mean it will happen this time (i.e. if AI truly becomes what was promised) and actually it's not likely it will!

I felt like the article had a good argument for why the AI hype will similarly be unsuccessful at erasing developers. > AI changes how developers work rather than eliminating the need for their judgment. The complexity remains. Someone must understand the business problem, evaluate whether the generated code solves it correctly, consider security implications, ensure it integrates properly with existing systems, and…

No previous tool was able to learn on its own mistakes (RLVR).

It might be not enough by itself, but it shows that something has changed in comparison with the 70-odd previous years.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#282
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> evaluate whether the generated code solves it correctly, consider security implications, ensure it integrates properly with existing systems, and maintain it as requirements evolve I think you are basing your reasoning on the current generation of models. But if future generation will be able to do everything you've listed above, what work will be there left for developers? I'm not saying that we will ever get such…

And your entire argument is based around the possibility of it turning into a magic genie that can do anything

Turning into a human-level intelligence. If you believe that it requires magic, well, it's your right.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The pattern repeats because the market incentivizes it. Market is not universal gravity, it's just a storefront for social policy. No political order, no market, no market incentives.

Markets always exists as long as people want to exchange one thing for another, by definition.

Yes and you're allowed to regulate markets into things that actively benefit society and not just sucking blood from people willy nilly.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#284
post #119

I was skeptical until 3-4 months ago, but my recent experience has been entirely different. For context: we're the creators of ChatBotKit and have been deploying AI agents since the early days (about 2 years ago). These days, there's no doubt our systems are self-improving. I don't mean to hype this (judge for yourself from my skepticism on Reddit) but we're certainly at a stage where the code is writing the code, an…

If these agent are so great was isn't ChatBotKit a highly successfully public company worth hundreds of billions and not just a glorified chatgpt wrapper? If you're able to do so much with so little why isn't that actually bearing out in becoming a profitable company? What's the excuse?

Do people really need to know that a bunch of code at a company that won't exist in 10 years is something worth caring about?

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#285

In the end, I think the dream underneath this dream is about being able to manifest things into reality without having to get into the details. The details are what stops it from working in every form it's been tried. You cannot escape the details. You must engage with them and solve them directly, meticulously. It's messy, it's extremely complicated and it's just plain hard. There is no level of abstraction that sav…

You write so well that I'm convinced by your words, even if you are wrong. Do you write professionally?

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#286

I recently did a higher education contract for one semester in a highly coding focused course. I have a few years of teaching experience pre-LLMs so I could evaluate the impact internally, my conclusion is that academic education as we know it is basically broken forever. If educators use AI to write/update the lectures and the assignments, students use AI to do the assignments, then AI evaluates the student's submis…

You should read Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course that is true. The nuance here is that software isn’t just getting cheaper but the activity to build it is changing. Instead of writing lines of code you are writing requirements. That shifts who can do the job. The customer might be able to do it themselves. This removes a market, not grows one. I am not saying the market will collapse just be careful applying a blunt theory to such a profound technological…

> Instead of writing lines of code you are writing requirements. https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/08/25/a-very-comprehensi...

The way I would approach writing specs and requirements as code would be to write a set of unit-tests against a set of abstract classes used as arguments of such unit-tests. Then let someone else maybe AI write the implementation as a set of concrete classes and then verify that those unit-tests pass.

I'm not sure how well that would work in practice, nor why such an approach is not used more often than it is. But yes the point is that then some humans would have to write such tests as code to pass to the AI to implement. So we would still need human coders to write those unit-tests/specs. Only humans can tell AI what humans want it to do.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#288

In the end, I think the dream underneath this dream is about being able to manifest things into reality without having to get into the details. The details are what stops it from working in every form it's been tried. You cannot escape the details. You must engage with them and solve them directly, meticulously. It's messy, it's extremely complicated and it's just plain hard. There is no level of abstraction that sav…

manifest-driven development.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#289
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic Jevons Paradox - when something gets cheaper the market for it grows. The unit cost shrinks but the number of units bought grows more than this shrinkage.

Jevon's Paradox does not last forever in a single sector, right? Take manufacturing business for example. We can make more and more stuff with increasingly lower price, yet we ended up outsourcing our manufacturing and the entire sector withered. Manufacturing also gets less lucrative over the years, which means there has been less and less demand of labor.

I'm quite convinced that software (and, more broadly, implementing the systems and abstractions) seems to have virtually unlimited demand. AI raises the ceiling and broadens software's reach even further as problems that previously required some level of ingenuity or intelligence can be automated now.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#290
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason everyone that says things like this never follow up with anything concrete, don’t share prompts or snippets, etc.

This project is completely built using claude code: https://github.com/ako/backing-tracks Most of the features take less than 30 minutes.

This isn't that impressive when there are mountains of training data dealing with exactly this... how about something truly unique and not something already available to the masses in hundreds of different forms?

Like cool, you killed boiled a few gallons of the ocean but are you really impressed that you made a basic music app that is extremely limited?

Post reply on HN