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Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

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Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#101

Post by gruez »

bluGill wrote: post #98
gruez wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's all the equity coming from? Keep in mind when you're buying the house in the first place, you're competing with other people who are also potential renters. They're incentivized to bid up to whatever their rents are, which also happens to equal how much you can hope to earn by renting it out. If anything they're willing to bid even higher, given how people are irrationally attracted to housing, and how much y…

Inflation and the amount you have paid off from the first loan

>Inflation

That affects houses too

>and the amount you have paid off from the first loan

See previous comment. The amount of money you collect from rents will approximately track mortgage payments.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#102

Post by burnt-resistor »

gruez wrote: post #42
burnt-resistor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deregulation led to Enron. Next bright idea?

This is as shallow of a response as "regulation led to the Soviet Union. Next bright idea?"

It's not shallow, it's brief and true. There is a distinction you're apparently too dishonest and hypocritical to admit to.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#103

Post by immibis »

gruez wrote: post #97
immibis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you agree they don't produce anything, since "providing capital" is not producing something.

So rental car companies are "parasites" too because they don't "produce" anything? What about banks, for that matter? I'm not seeing widgets coming out of their factories so they're "parasites" too. Don't forget about supermarkets either. They're certainly don't "produce" any of the stuff they sell.

What do they produce?

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#104

Post by fragmede »

roughly wrote: post #10
fragmede wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you plan on moving any time soon? The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The second best time is now.

Oh I know. Started tackling a couple things already, and it does make a difference. The two I really can’t do on my own that I absolutely would are replace the windows and put in solar.

FWIW, https://indowwindows.com/ (San Francisco) make window inserts that are the exact same size as the existing window, plus a wooden frame, so they look exactly like the existing windows. Mostly for keeping the exterior look of buildings in SF due to regulations, they block out sound and help with temperature control. They're pricey tho.

As for solar. If you have the budget and the disaster preparedness for it, there are some camping grade solar + battery systems that aren't house-grade, but great for power outages. The systems range from small (affordable), to the 1000 Plus, consisting of a battery with 1264Wh capacity and 120 v inverter, along with 200W of solar panels. That one'll run. you $1,500.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#105

Post by antonymoose »

antisthenes wrote: post #87
lostlogin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst case scenario that’s a 5.5 year ROI. That seems good.

The labor put in would be _at least_ as much as materials, so $20k total cost for this project to lower the bills from $450 to $225 on average. That puts it roughly at 7.5 year ROI. How many renters rent a single space for that long? There goes the answer to the article. It's a great project if it's your forever home, though.

That’s an incredibly low rate for the breadth and depth of work here. I, a homeowner, can do all of this work with no permitting involved and no certification. Were I to hire out to a GC he’s going to sub out to a plumber and electrician at a minimum. Probably also a drywall+paint crew. Maybe they’ll handle trim and flooring? Who knows!

My in-laws, a cost conscious couple, recently had a bathroom remodel. Nothing fancy or Gucci about it. Materials could not have been any more than 10k and reasonably closer to 5k - it was 45k total for the entire job.

I can’t give you an exact man-hours count but it was less than 40 hours of real-time but with 2 or 3 man crews. Let’s ballpark and say 100 man hours.

So you want to gut and finish a basement? That’s far worse than 10k more in my state of South Carolina.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#106

Post by isubkhankulov »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #62
reactordev wrote: post #43

This is a silly study. Home efficiency matters to people who own a home, not renters. Renters only care about making rent and being able to eat. They don’t have the luxury of thinking about energy saving appliances when the landlord hasn’t fixed the appliances they do have. Renters are trapped with capped wages and increasing rents.

If you had two identical looking houses for identical rent, one could cost $100/mo to heat/cool and the other could cost $300. This isn't really something that renters are realistically able to discriminate on.

I would support a law that makes this a required disclosure in rental listings, like asbestos. In some cities, commercial buildings are issues a public facing grade on their energy efficiency. Why not other forms of commercial real estate like multifamily?

The status quo is the energy costs are hidden and only revealed one month after you move in.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#107

Post by antisthenes »

antonymoose wrote: post #105
antisthenes wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labor put in would be _at least_ as much as materials, so $20k total cost for this project to lower the bills from $450 to $225 on average. That puts it roughly at 7.5 year ROI. How many renters rent a single space for that long? There goes the answer to the article. It's a great project if it's your forever home, though.

That’s an incredibly low rate for the breadth and depth of work here. I, a homeowner, can do all of this work with no permitting involved and no certification. Were I to hire out to a GC he’s going to sub out to a plumber and electrician at a minimum. Probably also a drywall+paint crew. Maybe they’ll handle trim and flooring? Who knows! My in-laws, a cost conscious couple, recently had a bathroom remodel. Nothing fan…

Yes, I was being extremely optimistic with the labor cost. That would really be the lowest possible opportunity cost for the homeowner to do it themselves.

The higher than number goes, the longer the ROI.

Putting in insulation actually has one of the worst ROIs if you outsource the labor.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#108

Post by lou1306 »

reactordev wrote: post #85
mayneack wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renters often pay for utilities.

Yes, what they don’t do is pay for a new fridge. Or energy efficient windows.

Yes, because it's silly to pay for things that effectively won't belong to them anymore if they move/get kicked out.

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#109

Post by lou1306 »

isubkhankulov wrote: post #106
IncreasePosts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had two identical looking houses for identical rent, one could cost $100/mo to heat/cool and the other could cost $300. This isn't really something that renters are realistically able to discriminate on.

I would support a law that makes this a required disclosure in rental listings, like asbestos. In some cities, commercial buildings are issues a public facing grade on their energy efficiency. Why not other forms of commercial real estate like multifamily? The status quo is the energy costs are hidden and only revealed one month after you move in.

In the EU this is already a thing: if you want to sell or lease a building, you must disclose an energy certificate.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=LEG...

Re: Most renters shut out of energy-saving upgrades – study

#110

Post by roughly »

fragmede wrote: post #104
roughly wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I know. Started tackling a couple things already, and it does make a difference. The two I really can’t do on my own that I absolutely would are replace the windows and put in solar.

FWIW, https://indowwindows.com/ (San Francisco) make window inserts that are the exact same size as the existing window, plus a wooden frame, so they look exactly like the existing windows. Mostly for keeping the exterior look of buildings in SF due to regulations, they block out sound and help with temperature control. They're pricey tho. As for solar. If you have the budget and the disaster preparedness for it, the…

Do you have an Indow? I’ve been eyeballing them for a while, but they’re pricy enough I haven’t been willing to call the shot yet.

I do have a pretty big bluetti and a couple panels for it - I also grabbed an RV fridge for storing food. Naturally, the capitalist gods smiled upon my financial offering and have blessed me with steady power since then.

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