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The recurring dream of replacing developers

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Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#201
post #110
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even think that "singularity-level coding agents" get us there. A big part of engineering is working with PMs, working with management, working across teams, working with users, to help distill their disparate wants and needs down into a coherent and usable system. Knowing when to push back, when to trim down a requirement, when to replace a requirement with something slightly different, when to expand a requ…

I think that's exactly an example of climbing the abstraction ladder. An agent that's incapable of reframing the current context, given a bad task, will try its best to complete it. An agent capable of generalizing to an overarching goal can figure out when the current objective is at odds with the more important goal. You're correct in that these aren't really ‘coding agents’ any more, though. Any more than software…

Not just the abstraction ladder though. Also the situational awareness ladder, the functionality ladder, and most importantly the trust ladder.

I can kind of trust the thing to make code changes because the task is fairly well-defined, and there are compile errors, unit tests, code reviews, and other gating factors to catch mistakes. As you move up the abstraction ladder though, how do I know that this thing is actually making sound decisions versus spitting out well-formatted AIorrhea?

At the very least, they need additional functionality to sit in on and contribute to meetings, write up docs and comment threads, ping relevant people on chat when something changes, and set up meetings to resolve conflicts or uncertainties, and generally understand their role, the people they work with and their roles, levels, and idiosyncrasies, the relative importance and idiosyncrasies of different partners, the exceptions for supposed invariants and why they exist and what it implies and when they shouldn't be used, when to escalate vs when to decide vs when to defer vs when to chew on it for a few days as it's doing other things, etc.

For example, say you have an authz system and you've got three partners requesting three different features, the combination of which would create an easily identifiable and easily attackable authz back door. Unless you specifically ask AI to look for this, it'll happily implement those three features and sink your company. You can't fault it: it did everything you asked. You just trusted it with an implicit requirement that it didn't meet. It wasn't "situationally aware" enough to read between the lines there. What you really want is something that would preemptively identify the conflicts, schedule meetings with the different parties, get a better understanding of what each request is trying to unblock, and ideally distill everything down into a single feature that unblocks them all. You can't just move up the abstraction ladder without moving up all those other ladders as well.

Maybe that's possible someday, but right now they're still just okay coders with no understanding of anything beyond the task you just gave them to do. That's fine for single-person hobby projects, but it'll be a while before we see them replacing engineers in the business world.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#202

We could have replaced tons of developers if only employers were selective in their hiring and invested in training. Instead there are a ton of hardly marginal developers in employment. Case in point: web frameworks as mentioned in the article. These frameworks do not exist to increase productivity for either the developer or the employer. They exist to mitigate training and lower the bar so the employer has a wider…

I disagree. A good framework makes code more maintainable, and makes it so you can focus on what’s important or unique to your product. It certainly makes you faster.

That depends on what you are comparing against. If a given developer is incapable of writing an application without a framework then they will certainly be more productive with a framework.

It’s like a bulldozer is certainly faster than a wheelchair, but somebody else might find them both slow.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#203

This resonates with what I'm experiencing, but I think the article misses the real shift happening now. The conversation shouldn't be "will AI replace developers". It should be "how do humans stay competitive as AI gets 10x better every 18 months?" I watched Claude Code build a feature in 30 minutes that used to take weeks. That moment crystallised something: you don't compete WITH AI. You need YOUR personal AI. Here…

What feature is it that Claude Code built in 30 minutes?

this comment is pretty obviously written by AI

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#204
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason everyone that says things like this never follow up with anything concrete, don’t share prompts or snippets, etc.

This project is completely built using claude code: https://github.com/ako/backing-tracks Most of the features take less than 30 minutes.

This looks pretty neat, thanks!

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why quiet quitting is the logical thing. Managers and business owners shouldn't take it personally that I do as little as possible and minimize the amount of labor I provide for the money I receive. Hey, it's just business.

Which is why I fire the quiet quitters on the spot

I am so appreciative of the employment protection laws we have in Europe so I don't have to deal with managers like you.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. A good framework makes code more maintainable, and makes it so you can focus on what’s important or unique to your product. It certainly makes you faster.

That depends on what you are comparing against. If a given developer is incapable of writing an application without a framework then they will certainly be more productive with a framework. It’s like a bulldozer is certainly faster than a wheelchair, but somebody else might find them both slow.

Eh. I’ve written plenty of applications by hand before there were good frameworks— win32 apps, old school web applications, “modern” SPA-like apps before there was a React. I’m more productive with React + Tailwind than I was with anything (other than maybe VB6). Being able to reason about your UI as a (mostly) pure function of state is powerful. It reminds me of the simplicity of game development— with a proper rendering layer, your developers can focus mostly on modeling their problem rather than UI complexities.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#208
post #119

I was skeptical until 3-4 months ago, but my recent experience has been entirely different. For context: we're the creators of ChatBotKit and have been deploying AI agents since the early days (about 2 years ago). These days, there's no doubt our systems are self-improving. I don't mean to hype this (judge for yourself from my skepticism on Reddit) but we're certainly at a stage where the code is writing the code, an…

I'm seeing it too, but there's a distinction I think matters: AI isn't replacing the thinking, it's shifting where the bottleneck is. You mention systems are self-improving and code quality has increased dramatically. But the constraint isn't execution anymore. It's judgment at scale. When AI collapses build time from weeks to hours, the new bottleneck becomes staying current with what's actually changing. You need t…

> You need to know what competitors shipped, what research dropped, what patterns are emerging across 50+ sources continuously. Generic ChatGPT can't do that.

You're saying that a pattern recognition tool that can access the web can't do all of this better than a human? This is quintessentially what they're good at.

> The real question is how do you build personal AI that learns YOUR priorities and filters the noise? That's where the leverage is now.

Sounds like another Markdown document—sorry, "skill"—to me.

It's interesting to see people praising this technology and enjoying this new "high-level" labor, without realizing that the goal of these companies is to replace all cognitive labor. I strongly doubt that they will actually succeed at that, and I don't even think they've managed to replace "low-level" labor, but pretending that some cognitive labor is safe in a world where they do succeed is wishful thinking.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#209
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Machinery made farmers more efficient and now there are more farmers than ever.

If AI tools make expert developers a lot more productive on large software projects, while empowering non-developers to create their own little programs and automations, I am not sure how that would increase the number of people with “software developer” as their full-time job.

Because you would create lots more large software projects, how that it’s cheaper to do so.

Re: The recurring dream of replacing developers

#210
post #186
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre industrial revolution something like 80+ percent of the population was involved in agriculture. I question the assertion of more farmers now especially since an ever growing percentage of farms are not even owned by corporeal entities never mind actual farmers. ooohhh I think I missed the intent of the statement... well done!

80% of the world population back then is less than 50% of the current number of people working in farming, so the assertion isn’t wrong, even if fewer people are working on farming proportionally (as it should be, as more complex, desirable and higher paid options exist)

You might be underestimating complexity and pay. What is and isn’t desirable, and to whom, is also complicated.
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