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America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

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Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#191

Post by [deleted] »

pessimizer wrote: post #168
systemtest wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only possible with stable and legal housing. Not everyone is privileged to be in that situation, especially not with the housing market in many countries. With your thinking you are creating a class of subhumans where you enjoy the benefits of their labour but you are not allowing them to vote. Like African Americans in the US not that long ago.

No, it's actually nothing like us. It's also annoying and insulting that we have to be the symbol for every victim of anything. Black Americans are not nomads. We're forced out by them.

[deleted]

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#192

Post by t-3 »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #178
dv_dt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protests come when people are pushed into a corner with little other choice. Participation is more prevalent when people have free time in their lives. Our economics has systematically squeezed free time out in favor of more work to most of our workforce, and particularly hard for young people. One reason so many local city policies favor the old, is that they're retired and have the time to participate

When in American history have we had more free time for civic participation?

Probably never, except maybe during the period when only white male landowners could vote and so the "we" was a much smaller and wealthier group. Voter turnout is pretty high these days though.

https://www.electproject.org/national-1789-present

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#193

Post by cornholio »

favflam wrote: post #103
milkytron wrote: post #15

I serve as a planning commissioner for my city, and my city just recently tried to overhaul our zoning code to allow for more affordability and better economic outcomes for our citizens and future as a city. Here is what I have learned: In the US, few people participate or care about local laws, zoning, and elections, or even understand why participation may be important. In a citizen ballot to determine if we should…

Some politician in Japan pushed zoning away from cities up to the prefecture and national level. So locals do not get veto rights over new construction.

It's an archetypal social coordination problem that can't be solved at a local level. If relaxed zoning pushes all new buildings into my neighborhood, because all other vote against it, then I'm going to end up with 20 stories of balconies hanging above my property but see no benefits, not even indirect ones like lower rents leading to lower inflation and prices etc. Some developer will simply capture that rent - both in the rent extraction sense and the real estate rent meanings.

A smart central planner can act for the shared benefit, they are sensitive to the votes of renters in some other high density area that also can't solve the problem locally etc.

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#194

Post by potato3732842 »

vel0city wrote: post #54
mothballed wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a snowball effect with zoning. I specifically sought out a place zoned with no building code checks and hardly any zoning. I value my right to die in a fire a lot more than I value my right to have the jack-boot enter my own property and tell me he knows best. People like me go to places with fairly free zoning. The jack boot lickers go to places with restricted zoning. Once one has a majority it jus…

I can't imagine I'd ever want to buy a house from someone who makes a point to live someplace where they can install sub-par plumbing and wiring, that this lack of code compliance was the selling point of where to build. Imagine buying a meal from a restaurant which prides themselves by not meeting the standards of the nearby town's health department.

People who conflate "not actively regulated and inspected with government permission being given before stuff even happens" with "sub par" as if that's not reductive at best is exactly how we got here.

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#195

Post by lern_too_spel »

pessimizer wrote: post #173
systemtest wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's by design that only people with stable housing can vote? I bet you loved pre-1965 America.

Whatever idea you have about how black Americans live is bizarre. And despite being ignorant of us, you attempt to silence discussions by acting like you are us.

[flagged]

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#196

Post by makestuff »

erikerikson wrote: post #53
systemtest wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or basically all of Europe. Haven't seen $4 lunch bowls (adjusted to local wages) anywhere. Spending "nearly an hour a day cooking" is the norm in most countries here. Eating out is expensive anywhere.

Here in Seattle, it's wildly expensive to go out and we rarely do. When I lived in Portland it was inexpensive (and amazing) so almost everyone went out regularly which supported a ton of restaurants that completed against each other. Not sure what was different but the difference was night and day.

Curious what time period this was. For example, if you lived in Portland in 2019 and Seattle in 2023 it could just be inflation causing people to go out less.

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#197

Post by KellyCriterion »

epistasis wrote: post #158
KellyCriterion wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and sorry: Thats absolutely OK. I do not want strangers stopping by for 3 - 4 years to be able to influence the politics of my country? Thats totaly understandable? I would never to ask to vote at a remote place where I do not live permanently, yet where I even not a citizen?

Somebody who spends 3-4 years in a place has an immense interest in how it's governed. Their view is 100% as valid as yours, and they should have equal voice, if we are going to judge people based on how long they live somewhere. I live in a college town. Why shouldn't student voices be represented, when they are a huge chunk of our community? Maybe I'm too US focused, and have been accused of that a lot recently, bu…

Because people do not vote "for local interests" but for "the interests they are carrying with them according to their believes", which are usually not on par with the interestes of the long-term-resident local community.

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#198

Post by KellyCriterion »

mattkrause wrote: post #150
KellyCriterion wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and sorry: Thats absolutely OK. I do not want strangers stopping by for 3 - 4 years to be able to influence the politics of my country? Thats totaly understandable? I would never to ask to vote at a remote place where I do not live permanently, yet where I even not a citizen?

What's the minimum residency you'd accept, because 3-4 years seems quite long to me.

Gettig citizenownership and giving away your former passport.

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#199

Post by KellyCriterion »

triceratops wrote: post #144
KellyCriterion wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and sorry: Thats absolutely OK. I do not want strangers stopping by for 3 - 4 years to be able to influence the politics of my country? Thats totaly understandable? I would never to ask to vote at a remote place where I do not live permanently, yet where I even not a citizen?

> I do not want strangers stopping by for 3 - 4 years to be able to influence the politics of my country? City, not country.

good catch

Re: America could have $4 lunch bowls like Japan but for zoning laws

#200

Post by t-3 »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #162
oncallthrow wrote: post #61

Not convinced, plenty of countries (e.g. UK) don’t have such stringent don’t have strict zoning laws and also don’t have $4 food

It is totally possible to get a $4 lunch in the UK. Basic pre-packaged sandwiches can be had for under $2. For about $4.75 you can get a sandwich, pastry, and a latte from just about any of the chain corner shops (Tesco Express etc) It's not gourmet, but it's a solid affordable option that millions of people eat every day. There's no real equivalent of this in the US sadly.

You can get pre-packaged sandwiches in the US (and a bunch of other stuff too, including hot food). I don't buy them and don't know the exact price, but they aren't expensive, definitely under $5. Eating from corner stores and gas stations is just usually looked down on.
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