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Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

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Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#81

Post by wolvoleo »

jrm4 wrote: post #74
wolvoleo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hybrid model here. For many many tasks a local 12b or similar works totally fine. For the rest I use cloud, those things tend to be less privacy sensitive anyway. Like when someone sends me a message, I made something that categorises it for urgency. If I'd use cloud it means they get a copy of all those messages. But locally there's no issue and complexity wise it's pretty low for an LLM. Things like resear…

Nice. You're exactly nailing what I'm working towards already. I'm programming with gemini for now and have no problem there, but the home use case I found for local Ollama was "taking a billion old bookmarks and tagging them." Am looking forward to pointing ollama at more personal stuff.

Yeah I have two servers now. One with a big AMD for decent LLM performance. And one for a smaller Nvidia that runs mostly Whisper and some small models for side tasks.

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#83

Post by wutinthewut »

shawnz wrote: post #10

I don't agree that this is end to end encrypted. For example, a compromise of the TEE would mean your data is exposed. In a truly end to end encrypted system, I wouldn't expect a server side compromise to be able to expose my data. This is similar to the weasely language Google is now using with the Magic Cue feature ever since Android 16 QPR 1. When it launched, it was local only -- now it's local and in the cloud "…

Agree. Products and services in the privacy space have a tendency to be incredibly misleading in their phrasing, framing, and overall marketing as to the nature of their assertions that sound pretty much like: "we totally can never ever see your messages, completely and utterly impossible". Proton is particularly bad for this, it's rather unfortunate to see this from "Moxie" as well.

It's like, come on you know exactly what you're doing, it's unambiguous how people will interpret this, so just stop it. Cue everyone arguing over the minutiae while hardly anyone points out how troubling it is that these people/entities have no concerns with being so misleading/dishonest...

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#84

Post by [deleted] »

paxys wrote: post #57
charcircuit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bob and Alice are in an E2EE chat Bob and Alice are the ends. Even if Bob asks Alice a question and she replies back to Bob, Alice is still an end. Similarly with AI. The AI is one of the ends of the conversation.

So ChatGPT is end-to-end encrypted?

[deleted]

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#86

Post by lrvick »

What he did with messaging... So he will centralize all of it with known broken SGX metadata protections, weak supply chain integrity, and a mandate everyone supply their phone numbers and agree to Apple or Google terms of service to use it?

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#87

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

what did he do for messaging? Signal is hardly more private than goddamn Whatsapp. in fact, given that Whatsapp had not been heavily shilled as the "totally private messenger for journalists and whistleblowers :^)" by the establishment media, I distrust it less.

edit @ -4 points: please go ahead and explain why does Signal need your phone number and reject third party clients.

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#88

Post by anilgulecha »

b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #87

what did he do for messaging? Signal is hardly more private than goddamn Whatsapp. in fact, given that Whatsapp had not been heavily shilled as the "totally private messenger for journalists and whistleblowers :^)" by the establishment media, I distrust it less. edit @ -4 points: please go ahead and explain why does Signal need your phone number and reject third party clients.

He implemented E2EE in Whatsapp as well.

Re: Confer – End to end encrypted AI chat

#89

Post by mosura »

2bitencryption wrote: post #24
shawnz wrote: post #10

I don't agree that this is end to end encrypted. For example, a compromise of the TEE would mean your data is exposed. In a truly end to end encrypted system, I wouldn't expect a server side compromise to be able to expose my data. This is similar to the weasely language Google is now using with the Magic Cue feature ever since Android 16 QPR 1. When it launched, it was local only -- now it's local and in the cloud "…

if (big if) you trust the execution environment, which is apparently auditable, and if (big if) you trust the TEE merkle hash used to sign the response is computer based on the TEE as claimed (and not a malicious actor spoofing a TEE that lives within an evil environment) and also if you trust the inference engine (vllm / sglanf, what have you) then I guess you can be confident the system is private. Lots of ifs ther…

> if (big if) you trust the execution environment, which is apparently auditable

This is the key question.

What makes it so strange is such an execution environment would have clear applications outside of AI usage.

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