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Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

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Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#41

Post by em-bee »

sbondaryev wrote: post #2

Seems like reading the code is now the real work. AI writes PRs instantly but reviewing them still takes time. Everything flipped. Expect more projects to follow - maintainers can just use ai themselves without needing external contributions.

this is precisely why i refuse to use AI to generate code at all. i'd have to not only read it but internalize it and understand it in a way as if i had written it myself. at that point it is easier to actually write the code myself.

for prototypes and throwaway stuff where only the results count, it may be ok. but not for code that goes into a larger project. especially not FOSS projects where the review depends on volunteers.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#42

Post by steveruizok »

sbondaryev wrote: post #2

Seems like reading the code is now the real work. AI writes PRs instantly but reviewing them still takes time. Everything flipped. Expect more projects to follow - maintainers can just use ai themselves without needing external contributions.

Reviewing code is much less of a burden if I can trust the author to also be invested in the output and have all the context they need to make it correct. That's true for my team / tldraw's core contributors but not for external contributors or drive-by accounts. This is nothing new and has up to now been worth the hassle for the benefits of contribution: new perspectives, other motivations, relationships with new programmers. It's just the scale of the problem and the risk that the repo gets overwhelmed by "claude fix this issue that I haven't even read" PRs.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#43

Post by em-bee »

corndoge wrote: post #18
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understanding (not necessarily reading) always was the real work. AI makes people less productive because it's speeding up the thing that wasn't hard (generating code), while generating additional burden on the thing that was hard (understanding the code).

There are many cases in which I already understand the code before it is written. In these cases AI writing the code is pure gain. I do not need to spend 30 minutes learning how to hold the bazel rule. I do not need to spend 30 minutes to write client boilerplate. List goes on. All broad claims about AI's effects on productivity have counterexamples. It is situational. I think most competent engineers quietly using A…

In these cases AI writing the code is pure gain.

no, it isn't. unless the generated code is just a few lines long, and all you are doing is effectively autocompletion, you have to go through the generated code with a fine toothed comb to be sure it actually does what you think it should do and there are no typos. if you don't, you are fooling yourself.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#44

Post by em-bee »

Analemma_ wrote: post #3
sbondaryev wrote: post #2

Seems like reading the code is now the real work. AI writes PRs instantly but reviewing them still takes time. Everything flipped. Expect more projects to follow - maintainers can just use ai themselves without needing external contributions.

This is probably true, and while I expect productivity to go up, I also expect "FOSS maintainer burnout" to skyrocket in the coming years. Everyone knows reading code is one-hundredth as fun as writing it, and while we have to accept some amount of reading as the "eating your vegetables" part of the job, FOSS project maintainers are often in a precarious enough position as it is re: job satisfaction. I think having t…

i have fun reading code, but the fun comes from knowing a human did this. if i find errors i get the satisfaction of teaching that human become a better developer by helping them realize the error and avoid it in the future. if the code is the contribution of a volunteer to a project of mine, even more so. that all goes out the window with AI generated code.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#45

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

We've enjoyed a certain period (at least a couple of decades) of global, anonymous collaboration that seems to be ending. Trust in the individual is going to become more important in many areas of life, from open-source to journalism and job interviews.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#47

Post by theshrike79 »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #45

We've enjoyed a certain period (at least a couple of decades) of global, anonymous collaboration that seems to be ending. Trust in the individual is going to become more important in many areas of life, from open-source to journalism and job interviews.

I've been trying to manifest Web of Trust coming back to help people navigate towards content that's created by humans.

A system where I can mark other people as trusted and see who they trust, so when I navigate to a web page or in this case, a Github pull request, my WoT would tell me if this is a trusted person according to my network.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#48

Post by jacquesm »

theshrike79 wrote: post #47
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #45

We've enjoyed a certain period (at least a couple of decades) of global, anonymous collaboration that seems to be ending. Trust in the individual is going to become more important in many areas of life, from open-source to journalism and job interviews.

I've been trying to manifest Web of Trust coming back to help people navigate towards content that's created by humans. A system where I can mark other people as trusted and see who they trust, so when I navigate to a web page or in this case, a Github pull request, my WoT would tell me if this is a trusted person according to my network.

You need a very complex weighing and revocation mechanism because once one bad player is in your web of trust they can become a node along which both other bad players and good players alike can join.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#49

Post by ryanxcharles »

sbondaryev wrote: post #2

Seems like reading the code is now the real work. AI writes PRs instantly but reviewing them still takes time. Everything flipped. Expect more projects to follow - maintainers can just use ai themselves without needing external contributions.

you can use ai to review PRs. i do this daily.

Re: Tldraw pauses external contributions due to AI slop

#50

Post by embedding-shape »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #45

We've enjoyed a certain period (at least a couple of decades) of global, anonymous collaboration that seems to be ending. Trust in the individual is going to become more important in many areas of life, from open-source to journalism and job interviews.

> global, anonymous collaboration that seems to be ending. Trust in the individual is going to become more important in many areas of life

I don't think it's coming to an end. It's getting more difficult, yes, but not impossible. Currently I'm working on a game, and since I'm not an artist, I pay artists to create the art. The person I'm working closest with I have basically no idea who they are, except their name, email and the country they live in. Otherwise it's basically "they send me a draft > I review/provide feedback > Iterate until done > I send them money", and both of us know basically nothing of the other.

I agree that trust in the individual is becoming more important, but it's always been one of the most important thing for collaborations or anything that involves other human beings. We've tried to move that trust to other system, but seems instead we're only able to move the trust to the people building and maintaining those systems, instead of getting rid of it completely.

Maybe, "trust" is just here to stay, and we all be better off as soon as we start to realize this, and reconnect with the people around us and connect with the people on the other side of the world.

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