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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#361

Post by andrewvc »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #200
libraryatnight wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume if someone works for Palantir they're an unabashed Yarvinist and fine with it.

That's a pretty broad generalization, but OK I'll bite. - I think Yarvin has a lot of good points. No one should be ashamed to admit the truth of a matter. I can't stand his voice, I think he has annoying mannerisms, but nonetheless the man has a point and I'm not ashamed (especially by unknown and strange online personas) to say so. - Palantir is objectively a profitable job. I've learned a lot here and the people I…

Can you describe at what point someone would “have blood on their hands” in your view?

The problem in my mind is that these systems are exclusively in service of dishonesty. ICE is clearly being used to further political ends. If it were actually trying to stem immigration it wouldn’t concentrate its officers in a state with one of the lowest rates of illegal immigrants.

Are you saying you agree with that cause or that you bear no responsibility?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#363

Post by jalapenoh »

embedding-shape wrote: post #315
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

Americans have wanted the border fixed for around a century.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#364

Post by gruez »

newfriend wrote: post #259
banannaise wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Blocking traffic" is at this point a tired trope. Any sort of disruptive action is described as "blocking traffic", which is somehow framed as a form of violence. (My favorite version is when people argue that it is a form of unlawful detention akin to kidnapping.) This would be more accurately framed as "parking illegally", which is the sort of thing for which you occasionally get a ticket placed under your windshi…

Purposely moving your car in front of law enforcement officers' cars to prevent them from arresting a suspect is in fact obstruction. This is not "violence", but you will be arrested if you do this. If you resist arrest, you will be forcefully arrested/apprehended. If you then attempt potentially life-threatening physical harm to the officer you will likely be met with deadly force.

>If you resist arrest, you will be forcefully arrested/apprehended. If you then attempt potentially life-threatening physical harm to the officer you will likely be met with deadly force.

Translation: you'll be summarily executed if the officer vaguely feels "threatened"

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#365

Post by NickC25 »

chinathrow wrote: post #55

If you work for Palantir and if you work on these systems: You have blood on your hands. You know that it's not right what is happening on the ground right now. Do something.

A guy I grew up with that works at Palantir.

Here's his thinking:

1. He's white and lives in a blue state. Doesn't affect him. Oh, and money. 2. The attention on Palantir and their customers makes his stock and options go up. He's happy, because money. 3. His GOP-worshipping parents get to brag to their GOP-worshipping friends that their son is helping God's Gift to Humanity - Donald Trump. And making bank while doing it. 4. He believes that Palantir is doing good work, and that's the end of it. He believes himself to be a genuinely good guy, so if he's doing something, it must be good.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#366

Post by agubelu »

throwaway853578 wrote: post #347
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

Because I have a kid to take care of. A job I need to keep, and a way of life I'd like to maintain. Because it's not happening where I live (yet). I care about people but I don't give a fuck about my country. It's just a place to live. If it gets too bad I'll move my family elsewhere. Also, this whole checks and balances thing we learned about in school will surely kick in sometime soon...

So you don't do anything because you have a job you need to keep and a kid to take care of, but you're perfectly okay with moving to a completely different country on short notice?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#368

Post by embedding-shape »

breakpointalpha wrote: post #346
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

American life is so much more distributed than European life. Population density and the gigantic geographic distance make these kinds of events feel "remote" even if they are happening in our same state. It's a 17 hour drive from Atlanta, Georgia to Minneapolis for example. On top of that, a lot of Americans are just barely surviving financially, so they are in full bunker mode just making rent. It's a scary time to…

> American life is so much more distributed than European life.

It isn't though, Google Maps estimate going West>East coast in the US to take 44 hours (pure driving without stops), and puts going from the South of Spain to the North of Sweden to take 50 hours, more or less the same.

Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of the US. I'm not sure it matters though, it really isn't relevant, but probably the wrong thing to bring up regardless, when the reality looks the opposite than you seem to think.

FWIW, when the (last) civil war in Spain happened, you had volunteer civilians coming from Sweden (among other countries) to defend their ideals, even if it wasn't their fight, completely different culture and language. But if you care about something bigger than yourself, then you act.

"My country is large" isn't an excuse to not stand up against tyranny, not sure in what world it would be.

The whole "just barely surviving financially" sucks though, especially considering the poor labor movements and almost non-existing union support, and poor grassroot organization. It always felt weird and artificially suppressed, but without those thing, it certainly seems easier to take over an entire country. Hope others learned their lessons with this.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#369

Post by [deleted] »

pixl97 wrote: post #107
chinathrow wrote: post #55

If you work for Palantir and if you work on these systems: You have blood on your hands. You know that it's not right what is happening on the ground right now. Do something.

The particular problem here is the vast majority of people that are writing this software 1. Don't care, blood is great. 2. Think they are the good guys. 3. Are more worried about their next paycheck and having bad things happen to them related to not paying rent.

[deleted]

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#370

Post by dragonwriter »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #343
embedding-shape wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to disagree with parent, and as long as you're aware you have blood on your hands, I guess cool? Why try to inflame the conversation even more? Just curious what you get out of it, because you're clearly not curious, or trying to understand something here.

This is a thread about morals, not tech. Many people are talking about how immoral ICE (and therefore Palantir) is, and I want to present the side that they are in fact doing exactly what many people in our society thinks needs to be done (i.e. they are not immoral).

> I want to present the side that they are in fact doing exactly what many people in our society thinks needs to be done (i.e. they are not immoral).

The Nazis were doing what many people in their society thought needed to be done.

It is a rather uncommon position (though, ironically, frequently a strawman position falsely attributed to their opponents to mock them by roughly the same political faction that backs the current ICE action) that “morality” is just whatever a sufficiently large number of people currently prefer.

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