Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 306 posts

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#251

Post by raxxorraxor »

ryandrake wrote: post #27

My kid has recently just quit playing Roblox because of the sketchy facial age check process. She said that her and all her friends know not to ever upload a picture of themselves to the Internet (good job, fellow Other Parents!!) so they're either moving on to other games or just downloading stock photos of people from the internet and uploading those (which apparently works). What a total joke. These companies need…

But I also don't want the alternative, that I have to ID myself. Anonymous and pseudonymous access is the best solution.

The EU tries to introduce age verification, simultaneously it currently talks about sharing police data with the US for the Visa waiver program.

If this verification data is collected and normalised, we will constantly have to fight how much data that is required for auth and it can just be legislated.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#252

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

If we truly need age gates on the internet, then I think the best method is to have non-internet based age verification. I envisage going to a local shop and buying something like a gift-card that the shops only sell to adults (c.f. tobacco sales in the UK). That way, the gift-card code would be the only information required to upload to websites to prove that you're an adult and existing legislation could cover the shops requirements to not sell them to minors.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#253

Post by palata »

petre wrote: post #207
kreco wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take a look at what Switzerland is about to do: https://www.homburger.ch/de/insights/swiss-voters-approve-ne... !

I'm obviously not going to show my id to Zuckerberg's website or any porn sites, casinos because I don't trust those bastards. They're also not the police, so they lack the proper autoritah to request my an id.

I think the point of the comment you are answering to is that in Switzerland, they are building a system where you can prove your age without telling who you are to the website, and without telling which website you visit to your government.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#254

Post by triceratops »

autoexec wrote: post #151
triceratops wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which stores sell age-verification scratchcards? Stores that sell other age-restricted products. > How do you make sure they can't be traced back to the person who paid for them How would they be traced? Pay cash. I've never had my ID scanned or recorded when I buy alcohol. And now I look old enough that I don't even have to show ID. If someone can trace the store they're bought from and you're that paranoid, rotat…

> Stores that sell other age-restricted products. So far, I've never seen an age verification scratch card sold anywhere > How would they be traced? Your ID is collected at retail and its barcode scanned along with a barcode on the card, your personal data and card ID get uploaded to a server operated by the entity that created the cards and/or the state. ID barcode scan can be replaced or used alongside facial recog…

> I've never seen an age verification scratch card sold anywhere

It isn't something that exists today.

> Your ID is collected at retail...

You know perfectly well I already addressed that whole argument in my original comment. I know you're philosophically opposed to age verification (a perfectly valid opinion), but that's no reason to tear down strawmen.

If you care at all, here's the proposal in full: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282

> Even just being able to link a used card back to the time/place it was purchased could be enough to ID someone

Even when close to every adult is buying them every year? Doubt. But in any case also addressed with alternatives in my original comment.

> I could upload a spreadsheet of 1 million unredeemed scratch off codes to the internet

You can't, for the same reason you can't just get unsold gift card codes on the internet.

> I reject the premise that proving my identity to a website is necessary

Again, a valid and reasonable position. But how long will the internet continue to operate like that?

> Of course, "Think of the children" is really only the excuse. Surveillance and control is the real motivation

Also mostly correct. Now I don't think children should be on social media. Whether or not there's a government ban, I'll do my best to keep my kids off it. The spooks are taking advantage of "save the children" voters to advance their own agenda. If it's possible to satisfy the "save the children" crowd, without violating anyone's privacy, then the spooks lose their support.

The alternative is to sit around as age gates get thrown up and you have to upload your passport to do anything.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#255

Post by palata »

autoexec wrote: post #151
triceratops wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which stores sell age-verification scratchcards? Stores that sell other age-restricted products. > How do you make sure they can't be traced back to the person who paid for them How would they be traced? Pay cash. I've never had my ID scanned or recorded when I buy alcohol. And now I look old enough that I don't even have to show ID. If someone can trace the store they're bought from and you're that paranoid, rotat…

> Stores that sell other age-restricted products. So far, I've never seen an age verification scratch card sold anywhere > How would they be traced? Your ID is collected at retail and its barcode scanned along with a barcode on the card, your personal data and card ID get uploaded to a server operated by the entity that created the cards and/or the state. ID barcode scan can be replaced or used alongside facial recog…

> So far, I've never seen an age verification scratch card sold anywhere

Because it was an idea. Something that is not implemented yet, but could be interesting.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#256

Post by palata »

First, I believe that age verification is coming, whether we want it or not. It is completely accepted to ask for an ID before entering a night club or buying alcohol, there is no way "people" will be convinced that it is unreasonable to do that for social media and porn. It is coming, period.

So the question is really: what is the best way to implement it?

* I find the "buying a gift card at a store" idea interesting: the seller checks your ID and gives you a gift card.

* I find the digital idea with privacy preservation interesting, too: the government already knows about me. If they can give me a token that only reveals my age, and I can use that token without revealing to the government where I used the token, then it works.

I think the EFF's stance on this is: "but some people will have issues using that technology". I would like to know how many people that is, and why we couldn't imagine a way to help them?

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#257

Post by triceratops »

cloudfudge wrote: post #139
triceratops wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In fact the 3rd party doesn't even need to know who you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282

That's quite an elaborate system. It goes through a lot of gyrations (not the least of which is inventing a whole new type of crime and passing laws about it) and doesn't sound even as strong as the age verification "required" to buy cigarettes in the US. I'd think "welcome to pornhub. Either log in or do Privacy-enhanced Age Verification by Auth0 (TM)" would be a lot easier to get off the ground.

> not the least of which is inventing a whole new type of crime and passing laws about it

They're already writing laws about age verification. Tacking this onto a bill in progress would be the way to do it.

As for the other "gyrations", selling age-restricted products IRL is already done. Gift cards and the infrastructure for them is well-established. Most importantly, this is something a regular person on the street can understand. This is vital for capturing the "save the children" vote.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#258

Post by triceratops »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #252

If we truly need age gates on the internet, then I think the best method is to have non-internet based age verification. I envisage going to a local shop and buying something like a gift-card that the shops only sell to adults (c.f. tobacco sales in the UK). That way, the gift-card code would be the only information required to upload to websites to prove that you're an adult and existing legislation could cover the…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 I had the same idea

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#259

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

triceratops wrote: post #258
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #252

If we truly need age gates on the internet, then I think the best method is to have non-internet based age verification. I envisage going to a local shop and buying something like a gift-card that the shops only sell to adults (c.f. tobacco sales in the UK). That way, the gift-card code would be the only information required to upload to websites to prove that you're an adult and existing legislation could cover the…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 I had the same idea

I don't see why they'd need to expire after a time, but I think the purchaser should be able to revoke the code if they lose it if they particularly care. A least with it being a simple age verification system, there shouldn't be any worry about someone stealing your code as it shouldn't be linked to any accounts.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#260

Post by ghtbircshotbe »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #101
dakiol wrote: post #65

I’ve noticed that many people struggle to simply let things go. Take a hypothetical case where HN requires ID verification. I'd just stop using HN, even if that meant giving up checking tech news. Sometimes things end, and that's fine. I used to watch good soccer matches on public TV. When services like DAZN appeared, only one major match was available each weekend on public TV. Later, none were free to watch unless…

> I’ve noticed that many people struggle to simply let things go Because it's not always about their entertainment. I know churches that post info about events only on WhatsApp groups, if you don't use it - you're screwed. I know kindergardens which use Facebook Messenger groups to send announcements to their parents' children - if you don't use it, you will miss important info. For most people, letting go such thing…

A lot of small towns are like this too - no website, posting only to Facebook. I suppose they figure it's better than nothing, which maybe is true on some level.
Post reply on HN