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SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

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Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#381
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it means anything, the first thought I had reading this post was "I wonder how SparkFun is exaggerating or misrepresenting this situation, because I can't believe Adafruit of all organizations is in the wrong here."

> because I can't believe Adafruit of all organizations is in the wrong here. I've been hearing about this drama through a group chat for a long time. To be honest, neither side looks good in this one. Both companies have behaved disappointingly at different times for different reasons. I'm not doing this is an arbitrary "both sides" dismissal. There have been actions from both companies that would have been unaccept…

Both companies are pretty small and presumably exist because their owners are passionate about hobby electronics. Honestly, I'd rather have companies like that ran by (flawed) humans than by PR robots.

If they want to air their dirty laundry in public, I'm happy to grab popcorn and watch. I'm honestly shocked by the number of folks on this thread who don't know the specifics, and most probably never even bought anything from Sparkfun or Adafruit, but still want to condemn one of the companies in the strongest possible terms...

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#382
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, thats just rules. rules you don't agree with.

Often these "rules" extend to conduct far outside of the purview of a project - typically crossing into identity politics. "If you espouse views I don't like on your personal Twitter, you can't contribute to this entirely unrelated software project."

I mean, that probably depends on how extreme are the views? If you write a blog post about there being too many colored people in London, how are non-white developers supposed to collaborate with you?

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it goes back a lot further than Twitter. As someone who hung out on IRC way back in the 1990s (and internet-knew Limor from Adafruit back before her handle was Ladyada) I associate this writing style with the culture of a lot of the hacker-related IRC channels I used to hang out in back then. Some of the same people from that era did in fact turn out to be tech founders and maybe that's how it got carried ove…

Corroborating. It goes way back to the early 90s IRC and MUD cultures, from which many of us sprung. Limor came to the scene a bit later, but the culture was well-established. Most of us would code shift when writing in other milieux, some weaned ourselves off the habit when our work started interfacing with nonreceptive readers, and a few retained the affectation to make a statement (or an anti-statement!). It's amu…

> early 90s IRC and MUD cultures

It goes back before that. There were well known Usenet folks who adhered to the style. The 1970s-and-earlier Arpanet was before my time, but I'm sure it existed then too ;).

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a trend among tech founders, I've seen some on Twitter doing it, and then a bunch of hanger-ons copying the behavior.

Not just tech founders. Jeffrey Epstein writing is just atrocious. Like how does anyone habitually use a commas ,, like this? I've heard it referred to as a "flex," basically doing something stupid to rub it in that you can get away with it.

I took that as an indicator that the person was using an on-screen phone keyboard.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#385
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't be the first time CoC was used as a lame attempt to harm open source. Thanks for speaking up.

I find it weird to jump to this from the scarce information we have. "Someone did a CoC violation" is just a way for an org to say "someone was an asshole to such an extent it was driving other people away or getting us into legal trouble", with the manner of assholery defined in the CoC. 9/10 times it is nothing sinister. Of course right now we just don't know what happened.

> "Someone did a CoC violation" is just a way for an org to say "someone was an asshole [...]"

Not even that, since so many CoCs are vague enough that someone unprincipled wielding them could be using them for petty interpersonal disputes. Unless I already have reason to trust the accuser, when I see "CoC violation" it tells me there's drama but it doesn't tell me who the asshole is.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#386
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take away from this link is not what Adafruit probably wants. > we told sparkfun they needed to get their house in order > that was the big issue i wanted them to get some hr training on, or _something_ You don't tell or demand another company do something with their own employees. There's more professional ways of dealing with a situation like this. Request a meeting. Send a calm, collected, professional email to…

I see: when you’re working with another company and someone’s a dick, you can’t mention it and give constructive suggestions on how to fix it, because then the suggestions are transmutated into an order. That means you are telling a company what it has to do to stop the bad thing, which is worse than the bad thing.

> it has to do to stop the bad thing, which is worse than the bad thing

Imo that “worse than the bad thing” evaluation is highly subjective. Nevertheless, I have to say I agree with the poster who recommends you cut ties on your own terms.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#387
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

after a decade of dealing with the founder's bullying, i had enough, looking back almost every year there was something. we did handle things privately until it was clear nothing was going to change, the only real change is we cannot buy teensy, a closed source board sparkfun exclusively makes now, maybe they (sparkfun) will stop paying the payments on something that had to agreed to, and have, we'll see.

I understand you're pretty upset with the situation, and I can't blame you. But I never should be reading about any of this on public forums. It doesn't reflect well on you or Adafruit. Now an outcome has been chosen for you, without your input. The situation is probably irreconcilable. That's not the position you ever want to be in. Obviously. If the situation was untenable, after your reasonable and private attempt…

You must be misunderstanding: the public post you are linking is from the party you are not talking to, and was the first publicly published thing, which if I'm reading correctly, is the sin to you.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#388
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you're pretty upset with the situation, and I can't blame you. But I never should be reading about any of this on public forums. It doesn't reflect well on you or Adafruit. Now an outcome has been chosen for you, without your input. The situation is probably irreconcilable. That's not the position you ever want to be in. Obviously. If the situation was untenable, after your reasonable and private attempt…

I completely disagree. Be yourself. And broadly, if you aspire to be in charge, as opposed to a forever IC, be yourself even more! Adafruit makes an aesthetic experience that appeals to a niche audience. It is not an hockey stick growth company. And even those that are: Everybody makes aesthetic experiences. Nobody needs hobbyist microcontrollers. Part of the product is being on the “right side” of Internet dramas.

If part of the product is "being on the right side of Internet drama", that kinda makes me trust them even less. A perverse incentive to get involved in stupid slapfights, escalate, and lie about it...

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree. Be yourself. And broadly, if you aspire to be in charge, as opposed to a forever IC, be yourself even more! Adafruit makes an aesthetic experience that appeals to a niche audience. It is not an hockey stick growth company. And even those that are: Everybody makes aesthetic experiences. Nobody needs hobbyist microcontrollers. Part of the product is being on the “right side” of Internet dramas.

If part of the product is "being on the right side of Internet drama", that kinda makes me trust them even less. A perverse incentive to get involved in stupid slapfights, escalate, and lie about it...

A private email isn't internet drama: you commenting on a disagreement you are not involved in, on the internet, is internet drama.

The person you are commenting on privately communicated, the public link you are reading is the other party.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi phil, appreciate the supposed candor here. I'm just an uninvolved HN observer interested in piecing together all the details of this dispute, here are some follow-up questions: - The first public claim is that you engaged in targeted social-media harassment of an individual ('discatte') [1], linking various personally-identifiable information to their public profile without consent (name, email and gmail profile p…

I don’t know what’s going on here but it is super funny to link to [2] and only quote “hi jerks” > nick has been telling people about the grand old time you two had at limor’s expense, my expense, and others. he says you sat around making memes about us, registering domains, the whole thing. > you removed [limor’s] name on code. you scraped our site until it crashed and then emailed to get unblocked so your team coul…

These are uncorroborated, unevidenced accusations, which is probably why they went unquoted
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