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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#71

Post by brokensegue »

b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #58
a4isms wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility A working truck should be max utility. Around the core market of "working trucks," there are various wannabe truck products that do not have to be max utility. For example, a Subaru Brat or a Hyundai Santa Fe. Niche products compared to an F-150, but they had/have their fans. I personally can't stand the design, but the idea of an impractical "halo vehicle" that appeals to…

A *working* truck should be max utility. All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive.

The reason is personal preference. Same reason people buy sports cars. I also wish their preferences were different

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#72

Post by bryanlarsen »

Lammy wrote: post #37
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

> I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. I 1000% agree with this, in fact I love the way it looks, like something out of a SEGA Saturn game. But I would never buy one for the same reasons I would never buy any Tesla, or in fact any EV, or any post-2014 car at all.…

Let me get this straight. You bought a "statement car" but not for its statement, and then you assume that other people driving a different "statement car" bought it because of the statement?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#73

Post by jandrese »

wffurr wrote: post #19
iancmceachern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. When the cyber truck was announced we decided to buy a Super Duty instead. That was 5 years ago. It's now paid off and driven us and our RV all over the country, and still worth more than half it's purchase price with many more miles to go, and no issues at all (knock on wood). A lightning, cyber truck, or even rivian can't do those things. Instead of waiting for a slate just buy a little gas pickup and GO USE…

>> no issues at all Other than all the CO2, CO, and NOx you've emitted over that time period. The government should have started taxing barrels of oil in the 70s.

If you want to kill coal and oil just tax them the fair market price of carbon sequestration for the amount of carbon they ultimately emit. Use that money to sequester the carbon. This is how carbon markets should have been set up, but unfortunately that would have killed the modern economy.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#74

Post by danans »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

> It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. > As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters.

The F150 Lighting (and the Cybertruck) are failing precisely because it was impractical. It was expensive, has limited range when doing actual "pickup truck" work, like hauling tons of construction materials. It was built for the very niche market of buyers at the intersection of luxury pickups and EVs.

People who buy huge luxury pickups tend not to want EVs, and people who buy EVs tend not to want huge luxury pickup trucks.

A practical work truck needs to be smaller, less luxurious, and less expensive, electric or not. If Ford follows through and releases a plugin-hybrid Maverick with 150ish miles of EV range plus the onboard generator, that would be ideal.

A pure EV drivetrain on the other hand is incredibly practical for daily commuter and even long distance travel - assuming you have home charging - but not for hauling tons of stuff long distances.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#75

Post by epolanski »

throw0101d wrote: post #24

I've seen headlines / stories giving Toyota grief about not going 'all-in' on BEVs while many other companies did. It seems that the hybrid-first strategy has been working pretty well for them. (The 2026 RAV4s are hybrid-only with no ICE-only options, AIUI.)

Armchair internet analysts think they know better than the biggest car producer in the world that reinvented the modern supply chain.

"But look at Tesla market cap!!!"

Toyota had the right intuition: focus on EVs when the global sales will make sense for it, meanwhile avoid throwing good money after bad like most legacy automakers did with EVs.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#76

Post by ryandrake »

billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

I'll applaud anything that tries to move us away from the current stale design trend where every car looks like the same boring bar of soap and every truck looks like the same aggressive, drivable, mechanized fist.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#77

Post by Workaccount2 »

subpixel wrote: post #49
Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

I disagree. I really want a Lightning but live in a very rural place, weekend in an even more rural place, and need to pull a trailer pretty often. I already have a plug-in hybrid that gets 40+ miles/charge and have opined all over the internet that the perfect car is one that gets 100+ miles/charge before firing any gas engine. It sounds like the next Lightning will give me that though I don’t put much stock in thei…

I disagree along with you. EVs would work for 80% of the population, there is a long tail of people who an EV will never (well foreseeable future) work for.

Thankfully, the mass of humanity that should be transitioning lives in populated areas and never tows anything for more than 75 miles. There is no need to get bogged down in back and forths with the small subset of people who an EV will not work for.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#78

Post by dzonga »

F-150 Lightning is better vehicle than Cybertruck - however Ford is a political company (not like Musk) as in the fortunes of Ford lie to an extent with politicians, unions etc

so hopefully ford can turn the F-150 into an Extended Range Electrical Vehicle

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#79

Post by epolanski »

erikstarck wrote: post #26

I'm as much of a Tesla Fan Boy that you can be but I have to say, the F-150 seems like a darn good vehicle and it's sad they're killing it. I especially like the V2X features.

What's there to brag to be a fanboy of a company?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#80

Post by alistairSH »

brokensegue wrote: post #71
b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A *working* truck should be max utility. All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive.

The reason is personal preference. Same reason people buy sports cars. I also wish their preferences were different

Sports cars largely don't have any of the negative externalities of trucks.
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