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We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

blog.metabrainz.org

121–130 of 279 posts

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes! The server can also send a retry-after header to indicate when the client is allowed to request the resource again: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/...

… which isn't part of the body of a 429…

Well, to be fair, I did say "is not read beyond the code itself", header is not the code, so retry-after is a perfectly valid answer. I vaguely remember reading about it, but I don't recall seeing it used in practice. MDN link shows that Chrome derivatives support that header though, which makes it pretty darn widespread

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#122
Some sort of hashing and incremental serial versioning type standards with http servers would allow hitting a server up for incremental udpates, allow clean access to content, with rate limits, and even keep up with live feeds and chats and so on.

Something like this in practice breaks a lot of the adtech surveillance and telemetry, and makes use of local storage, and incidentally empowers p2p sharing with a verifiable source of truth, which incentivizes things like IPFS and big p2p networks.

The biggest reason we don't already have this is the exploitation of user data for monetization and intrusive modeling.

It's easy to build proof of concept instances of things like that and there are other technologies that make use of it, but we'd need widespread adoption and implementation across the web. It solves the coordination problem, allows for useful throttling to shut out bad traffic while still enabling public and open access to content.

The technical side to this is already done. Merkle trees and hashing and crypto verification are solid, proven tech with standard implementations and documentation, implementing the features into most web servers would be simple, and it would reduce load on infrastructure by a huge amount. It'd also result in IPFS and offsite sharing and distributed content - blazing fast, efficient, local focused browsers.

It would force opt in telemetry and adtech surveillance, but would also increase the difference in appearance between human/user traffic and automated bots and scrapers.

We can't have nice things because the powers that be decided that adtech money was worth far more than efficiency, interoperability, and things like user privacy and autonomy.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#123

Nowadays people complain about AI scrapers with the same vain as they complained about search indexers a way back when. Just a few years later, people had stopped caring too much about storage access and bandwidth, and started begging search engines to visit their websites. Every trick on the planet Earth, SEO optimization, etc. Looking forward to the time when everybody suddenly starts to embrace AI indexers and wel…

Search indexing historically has had several of orders less impact on bandwidth and processing costs to website maintainers.

My recommendation is to copy the text in this article and pass it LLM to summarize this article's key points, since it appears you missed the central complaint of the article.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#124

Metabrainz is a great resource -- I wrote about them a few years ago here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/06/organizing-public-inte... There's something important here in that a public good like Metabrainz would be fine with the AI bots picking up their content -- they're just doing it in a frustratingly inefficient way. It's a co-ordination problem: Metabrainz assumes good intent from bots, and has to lock down…

> They won't believe a random site when it says "Look, stop hitting our API, you can pick all of this data in one go, over in this gzipped tar file."

Is there a mechanism to indicate this? The "a" command in the Scorpion crawling policy file is meant for this purpose, but that is not for use with WWW. (The Scorpion crawling policy file also has several other commands that would be helpful, but also are not for use with WWW.)

There is also the consideration to know what interval they will be archived that can be downloaded in this way; for data that changes often, you will not do it every time. This consideration is also applicable for torrents, since a new hash will be needed for a new version of the file.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#125
post #59

I actually deleted my web site early 2025 and removed the A record from DNS because of AI scraper traffic. It had been up for 22 years. Nothing important or particularly useful on it but it's an indicator of the times.

But why?

No humans, no point.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#126
There some other possibilities, such as:

Require some special header for accessing them, without needing a API token if it is public data. HTTPS will not necessarily be required. Scrapers can still use it but it seems unlikely unless it becomes common enough; but if they do then you can remove that and require proper authentication.

Another is to use X.509 client certificates for authentication, which is more secure than using API keys anyways; however, this will require that you have a X.509 certificate, and some people might not want that, so due to that, perhaps it should not be mandatory.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#127
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people behind the web crawler. If they’re so well funded they can exert a little effort to not so badly inconvenience people as they steal their training data.

[flagged]

It may come as shock to you ("Video/audio producer")

It’s one thing to ignore parent’s point entry, but no reason to be an ass about it.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#128
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people behind the web crawler. If they’re so well funded they can exert a little effort to not so badly inconvenience people as they steal their training data.

[flagged]

I've downvoted you for being incredibly aggressive in your responses. I'm not sure why you're ad homineming the parent commenter, but it's not helping the discussion.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#129

Metabrainz is a great resource -- I wrote about them a few years ago here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/06/organizing-public-inte... There's something important here in that a public good like Metabrainz would be fine with the AI bots picking up their content -- they're just doing it in a frustratingly inefficient way. It's a co-ordination problem: Metabrainz assumes good intent from bots, and has to lock down…

> Or better still, this torrent file, where the bots would briefly end up improving the shareability of the data.

that is an amazing thought.

Re: We can't have nice things because of AI scrapers

#130

Cloudflare has a service for this now that will detect AI scrapers and send them to a tarpit of infinite AI generated nonsense pages.

cloudflare also blocks my human-is-driving browser all the time

"enahble javascript and cookies to continue"

also unsupported browser

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