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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#161

Post by roywiggins »

miyoji wrote: post #147
anthonypasq wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you sound like someone from the 1800's shouting about how photography should be banned and not allowed to crowd out hard working painters. I'm saying that you shouldn't call photographs paintings because they aren't paintings. I don't particularly care if people make AI "music" or "art" and I don't particularly care if they consume it (people have been consuming awful media for the entire history of humanity, they…

Similarly, people keep posting articles to HN that get upvoted which are substantially AI edited. They're never labeled as such, and it's unpleasant to find myself reading unlabeled ChatGPTese again. There's a Show HN up now that has an entirely generated readme, which is just... fine, I guess. I just don't want to engage with it.

Ed: two Show HNs that are substantially AI generated readmes, now

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#162

Post by beepbooptheory »

BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

Cf. Holly Herndon's album Proto.

This is something people spent a lot of time on, is trained lovingly on only their own stuff, and makes for some great music.

It's "AI" but in an almost unrecognizable way to us now: its not attached to some product, and its not about doing special prompting. It is definitely pop/electronic music, but it follows from a tradition of experimentation between what we can control and what we can't, which is here their bespoke stochastic program.

https://youtu.be/sc9OjL6Mjqo

It is not about how the computer or the model enables us, which is so silly. (As if art is simply about being able to do something or not!) Its about doing something with the pieces you have that only those pieces can do.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#163

Post by hmokiguess »

bombdailer wrote: post #68
echelon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but some people really hate it for some reason. I've been attacked for saying I don't hate it, and I witness this everywhere. It's a tool. Artists and professionals can use tools. They're professionals and know how much is too much.

A stonemason who creates pieces by hand gathers more respect than one who delegates their craft to a cnc machine. No person who respects their craft will use tools that devalue their relation to their craft. Only those who seek to maximize personal gain of wealth would use such tools. Such a person, who sees merit only in the ends produced, rather than in the means themselves, does not participate in the shared histo…

I confess I am torn by your comment. I myself wouldn't choose AI for guitar, given that's where I have perfected my craft, and I am able to relate to what you said. However, not as an artist, but as a listener, I have no trouble with a guitar composition made by a machine.

John Dewey's famous book talks about shifting the focus from the maker to the experience and that the value of something is not about the artist's inner struggle but about the work's capacity to generate lasting experiences. This also ties well into Roland Barthes' essay about reading and how language is a living thing. He puts forward the notion that meaning lives in the reader, not in the writer. Audiences is what turns it into an experience.

Again, this isn't to devalue the effort or that the inner struggle isn't commendable, this is to say that artistic value can exist beyond that.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#164

Post by sharkjacobs »

I'm not ideologically opposed to making music with AI, but the dream would be new songs which which showcase the new sounds and musical forms that AI enables, like Believe for autotune, or Rumble for electric guitar, or Autobahn for synths.

I want a friend to message me like "Hey, there's some interesting stuff happening in the AI music scene, check out these tracks".

But everything I've seen is pastiche, either novelty songs (hit song as different genre, or famous monologue from popular movie as pop song) or generic background music meant for algorithmic streaming playlists.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#165

Post by nomel »

Ritewut wrote: post #145
anthonypasq wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if no one wants the slop, then its not competition. the problem is that people do actually want the slop and artists are mad about it.

That's not how discoverability works. If it becomes too much of a chore to sort through the swamp people will often just opt for whatever is popular.

All of the "discoverability" algorithms are specifically and fundamentally about sifting through the millions to find the few that are preferred. That is their many-billion-dollar industry purpose. Spotify does a fantastic job with this, for me.

> will often just opt for whatever is popular.

Are you suggesting that people consume media they don't like? I'm not familiar with anyone that does this. I personally skip if I don't like a song even a little.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#166

Post by sigmar »

nottorp wrote: post #143
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels legit to me. We have been using software to isolate individual instruments from a recording for a while.

The question doesn't feel legit to me though. The OP somehow found the one justifiable example among a sea of AI slop. Justifiable because there were some filters. That may not even have been "AI". They may have been some deterministic algorithms that the software maker has to label "AI" because they otherwise think it won't sell...

I've done audio engineering as a hobby. Even a decade ago, verbiage like "ai noise reduction" was very common. Of course that was RNNs, not transformers. But I think they have a valid point. I googled and found this 2017 post about iZotope integrating machine learning: https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-the-machine-learning-i...

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#167

Post by neom »

jplusequalt wrote: post #92
neom wrote: post #5

I've been having fun making stuff in Suno, I'm not a musician but I've always enjoyed "producing tracks" using Abelton and find the Suno + Abelton combo to be real magic on the weekends. I think some of the stuff I made isn't too bad and I'd love feedback on it. For a few weeks I went back and forth about uploading them to my soundcloud and resolve with this: I wouldn't have insisted we only allowed art made with MS…

The whole problem with this is that the people using generative AI tools are trying to co-opt what "art" is. They're barging into creative spaces and demanding that the real artists treat them as equals. I hope you understand that no group of people would treat you kindly for doing that.

Sure except half my classes in art school ended up in debates on what "art" even is/means - some people thought if it involved commerce at all it's not art, some people about the process, some people about the human, some people about the final work itself, is it high or low brow, fine art or emotive? So when you say "co-opt what "art is." - sure, but...not sure.

On barging into creative spaces and how that should be viewed, I suspect you and I would find we feel the same. I was personally involved in building and shaping deviantart and how we tackled these ideas, so what you see there today is influenced by my(and scott, eric angelo etc) thinking on this matter.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#168

Post by hooverd »

jatora wrote: post #133
z7 wrote: post #113

[flagged]

and that is why policies like this will turn platforms into dinosaurs. no need to care. large behemoths always thrash a lot as they die. as do the people who see this as a positive thing. ai music will be the future and create curated music for every user, specific to their tastes at that moment, for pennies. suno already matches 99% of music in quality and creativity. the last 1% and beyond will come soon enough.

having a shared reality is good actually

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#169

Post by eterm »

WD-42 wrote: post #98
te_chris wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But shhhhh about cds, don’t want people to realise… Also the price of decent (Sony hifi grade, not ES) CD players used is great too.

I did just realize after posting maybe touting how affordable CDs have become is maybe not the best idea.

I can't remember the artist but there's a fun song about how they used to pick up second hand LPs really cheap and then they got popular and too expensive, then discovered second hand CDs are really cheap now.

Frank turner-ish vibes but I don't think it was actually him.

It's completely un-googlable though, and even the LLMs aren't much help on this one.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#170

Post by jayGlow »

miyoji wrote: post #147
anthonypasq wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you sound like someone from the 1800's shouting about how photography should be banned and not allowed to crowd out hard working painters. I'm saying that you shouldn't call photographs paintings because they aren't paintings. I don't particularly care if people make AI "music" or "art" and I don't particularly care if they consume it (people have been consuming awful media for the entire history of humanity, they…

I would say trying to dictate what is and isn't art really goes against the spirit of art in general. plenty of art exists to push boundaries including what can be considered art.
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