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What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

scotthelme.co.uk

141–150 of 368 posts

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#141

> Having our full costs returned in ~11 years is definitely something we're happy with Except that after 11 years the equipment will have broken down or become obsolete, at which point you have to start over. > we've also had protection against several power outages in our area along the way, which is a very nice bonus. This seems to be the real benefit of the setup.

The equipment doesn’t have moving parts so I wouldn’t expect it to break down so quickly.

The real surprise for me was how much having solar panels on your roof adds to the cost of roofing work. Which is a problem because the roof is likely to need repairs more often than the solar panels.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#142
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having power when your entire neighborhood is off, priceless. [edit: yes, I assume you also get batteries, I know that solar alone doesn't magically power your house.]

Whats funny about that -- is you assume thats the case - but a lot of solar isn't installed to be backup power. With Storage yes, but straight up solar -> no.

Yea, that costs extra. My dad went for the natural gas generator.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#143
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can by a car instead. An MG4 costs less than 20000 euros with a 51kWh LFP battery. In addition to a good battery, it's a great car as well.

afaik it doesn't support bidirectional charging, I'd much rather cycle my standalone lifepo4 bank than my EV battery

Yes, it does. I haven't tried it as a do not have the cable for it, but the user interface for discharge is there and the manual also talks about this feature.

It's probably not ideal for running a full house (as it would require some other electronics and installations), but a couple of appliances should work.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the original idea was that they would pull older batteries from circulation when their capacities dipped, and then repurpose them as powerwalls, an application where weight is irrelevant. This was back when they expected the batteries to plateau at ~80% capacity after a few years, and they had battery swapping on the roadmap, so they needed to plan for a future where they had a steady supply of batteries that c…

Electric car battery degradation has been super interesting, in that they are going way further than people thought they might. Jonny Smith on youtube bought a 300k+ mile Tesla and the battery is at like 75% health. As far as I can tell if your battery isn't air cooled, it can go a very long way

There was some research[1] that strongly suggested that varied use makes them last much longer than the steady use that most battery tests do. That is, bursts of high-current draw followed by moderate draw etc vs the constant current load typically used when evaluating battery performance. From the paper:

Specifically, for the same average current and voltage window, varying the dynamic discharge profile led to an increase of up to 38% in equivalent full cycles at end of life.

This was unexpected, hence explains why they fared better than predicted.

[1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01675-8 Dynamic cycling enhances battery lifetime (open access)

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#145
post #34

9-11 year payback isn't bad based on the projections. You could probably goose it a bit with inflation of electrical prices (depends on how the electrical policies change and what they pass through). I'll also add theres some O&M coming down the line. Inverters @ year 10, small maintenance and Im assuming you re-did your roof before you installed. Anyone putting solar up make sure you do it at the same time as a roof…

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Rather like the car, think of panels as buying 20+ years of electricity upfront rather than being exposed to market rates. You can buy a car upfront, on credit, lease it, or rent it; in all of those the longer you commit the cheaper it is.

Not for everyone, but definitely for homeowners with suitable roofs and local utilities.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#146
post #52

It's wild how overpriced Tesla Powerwalls are. 16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0] 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k You would get your return way back quicker. [0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-... EDIT: As others have pointed out, powerwalls have inverters built in so it's not totally apples to apples. You can get a beefy inverter for $5k and it's…

IIRC, the original idea was that they would pull older batteries from circulation when their capacities dipped, and then repurpose them as powerwalls, an application where weight is irrelevant. This was back when they expected the batteries to plateau at ~80% capacity after a few years, and they had battery swapping on the roadmap, so they needed to plan for a future where they had a steady supply of batteries that c…

Any idea why swapping didn't pan out for Tesla? My understanding is they are doing that in China.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wont you need to replace the batteries around Year 10 and then this becomes a wash?

Why would you need to replace the batteries? Do they fail outright at around 10 years, become unsafe, or do they just lose capacity? Curious! Even if they're at 50% capacity, they would still work, right? But if there are other considerations, especially safety ones, then that would definitely be a consideration. I'm not sure where to learn about this type of thing.

> Do they fail outright at around 10 years, become unsafe, or do they just lose capacity?

LiFePO4 generally degrades to 80% capacity after 10 years, that's it. Safety isn't an issue.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#149

This is indeed nice for a well-to-do home. But there is a tragedy of the commons issue here. The grid needs to be up 24/7. And while peak usage is just that, the grid capacity still needs to support peak usage. This can theoretically be done using batteries but not for an extended amount of time. To say we can have batteries for 2 weeks of normal consumption is highly improbable. The metals do build those batteries d…

Residential solar with batteries greatly aids the grid and reduces costs for the entire system.

> The metals do build those batteries do not exist. Or put in a worse way, the mines do not exist.

Lithium and sodium, the two most promising battery metals, are not usually mined, though in Australia I hear there is mining. It's more of a brine process. All across the US, frackers are finding that all that water they are pulling out is a fairly rich lithium brine.

The amount of metal needed for 2 weeks of batteries is pretty trivial compared to the system we've built for extracting fossil fuels, and iron, etc. The bigger demands for electrification are acutally copper! Gotta wire everything....

Grid batteries on the GWh scale make a ton of sense financially and environmentally, and are revolutionizing the grid. Never before has the grid had a way to store electricity on a grand scale, which changes the entire nature of the beast. It's was one of the only massive systems we had where there wasn't buffering!

With storage, we can alleviate congested transmission without super costly transmission upgrades. On exist lines, we can the usage massively, reducing costs, because now we can buffer across time to shave off the peak demand.

Batteries are easy to build, environmentally friendly, and like a swiss army knife in their number of applications. We will be producing TWh of batteries a year in modern economies, and they last ~20 years, meaning that for the foreseeable economic growth in the coming decades, we'll easily have a peta-watthour of battery storage in use at a time.

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