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Indifference is a power (2015)

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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#41

Post by deadbabe »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I think if we did the opposite, where we imagine we are the same person as other people in various situations, I think we would be overcome with debilitating pain, unable to function and just curling up into a ball and crying all day.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#42

Post by andsoitis »

richardanaya wrote: post #28

Happiness only comes from the achievement of values. The greatest bamboozlement of stoicism is teaching people to be indifferent to achieving their values. It lobotomizes upside gains in a world that's full of opportunity to a mind of reason.

> teaching people to be indifferent to achieving their values

That's inaccurate. Stoicism teaches indifference to outcomes you don’t fully control, while demanding total commitment to the values you do control such as your character, choices, and actions.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#43

Post by jezzamon »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #27
parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

I’m tired of the whole “toxic masculinity” framing. First, it’s sloppy. Plenty of genuinely harmful traits exist, but trying to pin them to “masculine” or “feminine” archetypes is more ideology than analysis. If the problem is bad behavior, just call it bad behavior. Adding a gender label doesn’t improve clarity, it just adds noise. Second, it’s selectively applied. Many traits that are equally destructive are rarely…

I think you should understand the terms as "toxic masculinity" as opposed to "positive masculinity". It's not saying masculinity is toxic. Or if you want, as opposed to "true masculinity" - reframing masculinity as a positive thing when expressed correctly.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#44

Post by rramadass »

Samkhya Philosophy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya) gives a far more comprehensive model to analytically go beyond the three sources of suffering (viz. from own body/mind, from other beings/things, from acts of god).

You can then think of specific practices from Buddhism eg. Tibetan Lojong - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojong - and Stoicism as applications within that framework.

PS: Keith Seddon's Epictetus' Handbook and the Tablet of Cebes: Guides to Stoic Living is one of the best books in stoic literature. - https://www.routledge.com/Epictetus-Handbook--and-the-Tablet...

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#45

Post by drjasonharrison »

andsoitis wrote: post #37

Mel Robins' popular "Let Them Theory" captures some of the sentiment of Stoicism. https://www.melrobbins.com/book/the-let-them-theory/

Key phrase "captures some of the sentiment of Stoicism". Her book could be cut down to about ten pages.

If Books Could Kill reviewed her book in April 2025:

"Peter and Michael discuss The Let Them Theory, a self-help guide to seeking bliss through unmitigated complacency."

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RupLQH4eBnUX4mo1zAAFz?si=h...

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#46

Post by lr4444lr »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

As I get older, I read this entirely differently (as an appeal to empathy) than I did when I was younger (as an appeal to stolidity).

In other words, you should be pained for your neighbor when his slave breaks his cup. Maybe his grandmother left him that cup, and he's developed many fond memories around which he drank a soothing beverage in that heirloom. That empathy how we connect with people, build meaning, and make life richer.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#47

Post by ndr »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I wonder how evolutionary fit such indifference really is. It can, of course, be way too much as well as too little.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#48

Post by naasking »

parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

> I can’t help but think that the stoicism is so popular among manosphere type

Is it actually though?

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#49

Post by oldjim798 »

jebarker wrote: post #36
webdevver wrote: post #23

[flagged]

You know Marcus Aurelius was emperor of Rome right? It's not startup founder successful, but it's definitely moderately successful.

I'm not sure there is much worth in imitating a Roman Emperor. They were violent megalomaniacal psychopaths to a man. There is little, about Marcus as a human being, I would consider "successful". Just because he was a good Emperor doesn't mean he was a morally successful person.

To me, successful "mind hacks" help us become more success at being better people; not enabling a horrible empire.

Of course the final word on Marcus should go to Mary Beard, the best classist of her generation:

--->“I have never understood what people get out of him. It’s a bad book. It’s hard to argue about it — it’s so evidently garbage that it’s hard to sit down with somebody who doesn’t think it’s garbage and fight it out. He’s a terrible writer."

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#50

Post by parpfish »

jebarker wrote: post #36
webdevver wrote: post #23

[flagged]

You know Marcus Aurelius was emperor of Rome right? It's not startup founder successful, but it's definitely moderately successful.

Oh yeah, what kind of exit did Rome get? They raised a lot of rounds, but did they ever go public? I heard they got acquihired and most folks got nothing
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