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Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

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Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#161

Post by viraptor »

narmiouh wrote: post #24

I wonder how will this affect future Anthropic products, if prior art/products exist that have already been built using claude. If this is to only limit knowledge distillation for training new models or people Copying claude code specifically or preventing max plan creds used as API replacement, they could properly carve exceptions rather than being too broad which risks turning away new customers for fear of (future…

If they think that will work, they're really silly. Is a ToS change going to stop a corp which can gain millions of dollars and can technically work around the protection in hours? Yeah, nah..

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#162

Post by oblio »

falloutx wrote: post #68
oblio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went from max 20x and chatgpt pro to Claude pro and chat gpt plus + open router providers, and I have now cancelled Claude pro and gpt plus, keeping only Gemini pro (super cheap) and using open router models + a local ai workstation I built using minimax m2.1 and glam 4.7. I use Gemini as the planner and my local models as the churners. Works great, the local models might not be as good as opus 4.5 or sonnet 4.7,…

On opencode you can use models which are free for unlimited use and you can pick models which only cost like $15 a month for unlimited use.

OP mentioned a local LLM rig plus a rather complex setup from what I understood (I could be wrong).

Also, most of the lower end models aren't that good. At this point you can take an experienced dev and start implementing an app using any mature stack (I'm talking even about stuff like Ada, so not just C/C++, JS, etc) on any mainstream platform (big 3 desktop + big 2 mobile + web) and you can get quite far with Claude Code. By far I mean you'll at least do the 80% really quickly, at which point the "experienced dev" needs to take over. I think you can even get 95% of the way there. And that's with a stack that the dev is unfamiliar with at the start.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#163

Post by plausibility »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #120
hinkley wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might suffice to just make it look like you’re European to keep their goons from harassing you, which hasn’t happened yet but will, because that’s how these stories always end. Get a PO Box for a credit card and VPN in through Europe.

I think one might argue even a VPN might be enough. Theoretically someone might be European and can have American card or any other countries cards and it would generally be okay. So the only thing you kind of need to figure out is VPN and ProtonVPN provides free vpn service which does include EU servers access as well I wonder if Claude Code or these AI services block VPN access though. If they do, ehh, just buy a E…

It’s pretty much table stakes to block or restrict or just investigate more closely if requests come from an IP address in a data centre provider or VPN provider ASN though.

I worked at a cloud company a while ago, and if free tier user requests came from another cloud providers IPs we’d have to double check it wasn’t fraud since that happened more often than residential ranges.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#164

Post by oblio »

fgonzag wrote: post #139
oblio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went from max 20x and chatgpt pro to Claude pro and chat gpt plus + open router providers, and I have now cancelled Claude pro and gpt plus, keeping only Gemini pro (super cheap) and using open router models + a local ai workstation I built using minimax m2.1 and glam 4.7. I use Gemini as the planner and my local models as the churners. Works great, the local models might not be as good as opus 4.5 or sonnet 4.7,…

My first switch was to open code + open router. I used it to try mixing models for different tasks and to try open weights models before committing to the hardware. Even paying API pricing it was significantly cheaper than the nearly $500 I was paying monthly (I was spending about $100 month combined between Claude pro, chat gpt plus, and open router credits). Only when I knew exactly the setup I wanted locally did I…

> but I could have gone with Nvidia and had much less issues (for double the cost, dual Blackwell's vs quad Radeon W7900s for 192GB of VRAM).

> If you spend twice what I did and go Nvidia you should have nearly no issues running any models.

I goodled what a Radeon W7900 costs and the result on Amazon was €2800 a piece. You say "quad" so that's €11200 (and that's just the GPUs).

You also say "spend twice what I did", which would put the total hardware costs at ~€25000 total.

Excuse me, but this is peak HN detachment from the experience of most people. You propose spending the cost of a car on hardware.

The average person will just pay Anthropic €20 or €100 per month and call it a day, for now.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#165

Post by gloomyday »

ctoth wrote: post #11

I was all set to be pissed off, "you can't tell me what I can make with your product once you've sold it to me!" but no... This outrage bait hinges on the definition of "use" You can use Claude Code to write code to make a competitor for Claude Code. What you cannot do is reverse engineer the way the Claude Code harness uses the API to build your own version that taps into stuff like the max plan. Which? makes sense?…

We have to train ourselves to not be pissed off at headlines. They are most of the time bait.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#166

Post by falloutx »

oblio wrote: post #162
falloutx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On opencode you can use models which are free for unlimited use and you can pick models which only cost like $15 a month for unlimited use.

OP mentioned a local LLM rig plus a rather complex setup from what I understood (I could be wrong). Also, most of the lower end models aren't that good. At this point you can take an experienced dev and start implementing an app using any mature stack (I'm talking even about stuff like Ada, so not just C/C++, JS, etc) on any mainstream platform (big 3 desktop + big 2 mobile + web) and you can get quite far with Claud…

Claude code has aggressive limits on $18/month plan. You can get much farther with Minimax 2.1 or Qwen3 on the same amount of money. I have noticed opus is much better in some scenarios but Minimax and Q3 are not as bad or behind. Or my setup is now too used to the quirks of those models, who knows. I am using Claude Haiku as small model anyway, just not using Opus because it burns credits very quickly.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#167

Post by YetAnotherNick »

dathinab wrote: post #158
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by void? Sure you cannot be sued for writing clone, in any country. All they can do is ban account and I think they can ban any account in EU.

void means it's not legal and it's more or less as if the text there where just void/blank you can't violate a void clause in TOS or a contract so you can't get a ban/termination for violating a void clause they still can decide to not do business with you, after providing all service you already payed for and that is _if_ you can decide to not to business with individuals without providing a reason, in certain situa…

> so you can't get a ban/termination for violating a void clause

> they still can decide to not do business with you

What's the difference?

> in countries where such a clause is valid/not-void, you very well can be sued for using Claude Code to work on/develop e.g. Open Code...

Has anyone in any country ever got successfully sued for violating ToS terms like these? Try to read any ToS and think that average use doesn't violate at least some of them. Even the EU's own site contains things like "including but not limited to".

[1]: https://europass.europa.eu/en/node/2161

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#168

Post by deaux »

whimsicalism wrote: post #137
behnamoh wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, Anthropic thinks they have a moat; this is classic Apple move, but they ain't Apple.

they do have a moat. opus is currently much better than every other model except maybe gpt-5.2

At using tools, sure. If Gemini 3 Pro GA is good at tool use, the moat is gone.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#169

Post by deaux »

viraptor wrote: post #159
lobito25 wrote: post #157

Claude code quality degradation is currently the worst I've ever seen.

This idea comes around every few months, but nobody can document it in tests (apart from the actually broken services that get fixed in a couple of days). Have you got repeatable cases where it can be shown?

I've had a 100% benchable case in the past, though it wasn't really a degradation in terms of output quality per se, it was (an undocumented and unacknowledged) permanent degradation in maximum output length. From one day to the next, 100% of prompts where we'd ask for e.g. 15 sections, would only do 10 sections and then ask "Would you like me to continue?". Which is in a way quality, but generally not something that shows up on coding benches and the likes. This was Anthropic.

Also seen a 2-week latency 10+ times increase of Gemini 2.5 Flash finetuned (= enterprise) model endpoints, again undocumented and unacknowledged, because they shifted all of their GPU capacity towards going "viral" on people generating slop artwork around Nano Banana Pro release.

So plenty of silent shenanigans do happen, including by the Big 3 on API endpoints. At the same time I agree with you that all those rumors of "degradation in code quality" are very much unproven.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#170

Post by deaux »

gbear605 wrote: post #145
aw123 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen dozens of "experts" all over the internet claim that they're "subsidizing costs" with the coding plans despite no evidence whatsoever. Despite the fact that various sources from OpenAI, Deepseek, model inference providers have suggested the contrary, that inference is very profitable with very high margins.

Just looking at my own usage at work, we’re spending around $50/day on OpenAI API credits (with Codex). With Claude Code I get higher usage limits for $200/month, or around $8/day. Probably the equivalent from OpenAI is around $100/day of API credits. Maybe OpenAI has a 12x markup on API credits, or Anthropic is much better at running inference, but my best guess is that Anthropic is selling at a large loss.

You can't be comparing OpenAI API with Anthropic subscription. The comparison here is OpenAI Codex subscription with Anthropic subscription. And when you do that, it turns out that the Codex limits are a lot higher for the same price. So then if Anthropic is selling at a large loss, OpenAI is selling at an even much bigger one.
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