Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD? • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#11

Post by futuremint » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:26 PM UTC

We have tests for both Rails and front-end javascript. Not 100% coverage, but all of the critical code is covered. TDD is used to develop the more complicated domain specific features that we need to make sure are correct.

We also create tests to cover bugs to prevent regressions.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#12

Post by fauigerzigerk » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:28 PM UTC

We do use automated tests, but not test-first. The tests are written once the design and the initial implementation have settled down a bit.

I think production code absolutely needs good test coverage, otherwise changing things is a nail biting affair.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#13

Post by ivankirigin » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:40 PM UTC

tdavis wrote: post #2

I've admitted on a few occasions that I've never written a unit test for anything. This is something I keep meaning to change, if only I could find the time. For the time being, I can still keep the code dependencies and side-effects in my head so it has yet to cause any serious issues. I still slap my own hand, though.

You and I both suffer from SDS: single developer syndrome.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#14

Post by teej » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:40 PM UTC

I recently finished contracting with a startup that heavily relied on outsourced programmers for 70% of their code. Use of TDD & Cruise Control were essential in keeping the code quality up while rapidly adding developers. I have to say, they managed it all pretty well.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#15

Post by mikeryan » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:47 PM UTC

ivankirigin wrote: post #13

tdavis wrote: post #2

I've admitted on a few occasions that I've never written a unit test for anything. This is something I keep meaning to change, if only I could find the time. For the time being, I can still keep the code dependencies and side-effects in my head so it has yet to cause any serious issues. I still slap my own hand, though.

You and I both suffer from SDS: single developer syndrome.

This is a common fallacy regarding test driven development. I use BDD/TDD MORE as a single developer. I may spend significant time writing tests, but the product is significantly better and I spend less time tracking down bugs.

The time you "lose" on the frontend of development is made up on the back.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#16

Post by Allocator2008 » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 1:59 PM UTC

A point on terminology: unit testing is an upstream, in-development process, done usually either by development or CM. For example, a java build tool like maven can include running unit tests during the build process. Automated testing is usually a downstream process done by QA. Currently I do SilkTest automation, using the 4-Test language of Borland SilkTest. That is under the "umbrella" of QA. In the past though I have done unit testing (CPPUnit mostly, the C++ port of JUnit), which would have been under the "umbrella" of development. In my experience, it seems like people adopt automation (i.e. GUI automation) from the QA end of it, before they adopt unit testing from the development end of it, unless a test driven development mentality is there from the get-go. If a company starts without this, they are more likely to adopt automation in the QA end of things, and then maybe later adopt unit testing in development. Seems like a company needs to do unit testing from the very start, or otherwise it is very slow to adopt it. I think unit testing is a great idea, but really it is hard to put into place from a management point of view, unless it is there to begin with.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#17

Post by karim » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 2:47 PM UTC

By the way, do you know a good unit test framework for C programs ?

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#18

Post by subwindow » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 3:16 PM UTC

tdavis wrote: post #2

I've admitted on a few occasions that I've never written a unit test for anything. This is something I keep meaning to change, if only I could find the time. For the time being, I can still keep the code dependencies and side-effects in my head so it has yet to cause any serious issues. I still slap my own hand, though.

> if I could only find the time

The asinine thing about this is that unit testing saves a massive amount of time in the long run. In the short run, even, it saves time.

You're really shooting yourself in the foot.

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#19

Post by nirav » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 3:21 PM UTC

For a non-startup, I TDD where it makes sense, for example when I'm implementing from scratch and requirements are pretty vague. However, I try to cover existing code with automated tests where risk of change is very high (bad code).

Re: Poll: What proportion of start-ups/non-start-ups use automated unit tests/TDD?

#20

Post by mikeryan » Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 3:23 PM UTC

mixmax wrote: post #9

swombat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which situations do you think call for "no automated tests"?

The quick and dirty jobs that we all do every now and then.

These times are when you need automated testing the most.