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Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

antirez.com

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Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#391

Post by Izkata »

qcnguy wrote: post #362
dist-epoch wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said the exact same thing about (numbers from memory, might be off): - when Google paid $1 bil for YouTube - when Facebook paid $1 bil for Instagram - when Facebook paid $1 bil for WhatsApp The same thing - these 3 companies make no money, and have no path to making money, and that the price paid was crazy and decoupled from any economics. Yet now, in hindsight, they look like brilliant business decisions.

We don't really know how much money Google sunk into YouTube before it became (presumably) profitable. It might have actually not been strongly coupled to economics.

Also they attempted their own competitor before buying YouTube, called Google Video. It never got very popular.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#392

Post by lins1909 »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #330
embedding-shape wrote: post #95

> But what was the fire inside you, when you coded till night to see your project working? It was building. I feel like this is not the same for everyone. For some people, the "fire" is literally about "I control a computer", for others "I'm solving a problem for others", and yet for others "I made something that made others smile/cry/feel emotions" and so on. I think there is a section of programmer who actually do…

This article is not about whether programming is fun, elegant, creative, or personally fulfilling. It is about business value. Programming exists, at scale, because it produces economic value. That value translates into revenue, leverage, competitive advantage, and ultimately money. For decades, a large portion of that value could only be produced by human labor. Now, increasingly, it cannot be assumed that this will…

Why do you say this subjective thing so confidently? Does believing what you just wrote make you feel better?

Have you considered that there are people who actually just enjoy programming by themselves?

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#393

Post by casid »

ironman1478 wrote: post #348

I'm not sure what to make of these technologies. I read about people doing all these things with them and it sounds impressive. Then when I use it, it feels like the tool produces junior level code unless I babysit it, then it really can produce what I want. If I have to do all this babysitting, is it really saving me anything other than typing the code? It hasn't felt like it yet and if anything it's scary because I…

I'm always puzzled by these claims. I usually know exactly what I want my code to look like. Writing a prompt instead and waiting for the result to return takes me right out of the flow. Sure, I can try to prompt and ask for larger junks, but then I have to review and understand the generated output first. If this makes people 10x faster, they must have worked really slow before.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#394

Post by kaffekaka »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #330
embedding-shape wrote: post #95

> But what was the fire inside you, when you coded till night to see your project working? It was building. I feel like this is not the same for everyone. For some people, the "fire" is literally about "I control a computer", for others "I'm solving a problem for others", and yet for others "I made something that made others smile/cry/feel emotions" and so on. I think there is a section of programmer who actually do…

This article is not about whether programming is fun, elegant, creative, or personally fulfilling. It is about business value. Programming exists, at scale, because it produces economic value. That value translates into revenue, leverage, competitive advantage, and ultimately money. For decades, a large portion of that value could only be produced by human labor. Now, increasingly, it cannot be assumed that this will…

Very good comment!

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#395

Post by [deleted] »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #140

I generally have a lot of respect for this guy. He’s an excellent coder, and really cares about his craft. I can relate to him (except he’s been more successful than me, which is fine -he deserves it). Really, one of the first things he said, sums it up: > facts are facts, and AI is going to change programming forever. I have been using it in a very similar manner to how he describes his workflow, and it’s already gr…

[deleted]

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#397

Post by tracerbulletx »

embedding-shape wrote: post #95

> But what was the fire inside you, when you coded till night to see your project working? It was building. I feel like this is not the same for everyone. For some people, the "fire" is literally about "I control a computer", for others "I'm solving a problem for others", and yet for others "I made something that made others smile/cry/feel emotions" and so on. I think there is a section of programmer who actually do…

For me its the feeling of true understanding and discovery. Not just of how the computer works, but how whatever problem domain I'm making software for works. It's model building and simulation of the world. To the degree I can use the LLM to teach me to solve the problem better than I could before I like it, to the degree it takes over and obscures the understanding from me, I despise it. I don't love computers because of how fast I can create shareholder value, that's for sure.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#398

Post by simianwords »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #330
embedding-shape wrote: post #95

> But what was the fire inside you, when you coded till night to see your project working? It was building. I feel like this is not the same for everyone. For some people, the "fire" is literally about "I control a computer", for others "I'm solving a problem for others", and yet for others "I made something that made others smile/cry/feel emotions" and so on. I think there is a section of programmer who actually do…

This article is not about whether programming is fun, elegant, creative, or personally fulfilling. It is about business value. Programming exists, at scale, because it produces economic value. That value translates into revenue, leverage, competitive advantage, and ultimately money. For decades, a large portion of that value could only be produced by human labor. Now, increasingly, it cannot be assumed that this will…

I wrote something similar earlier:

This is because they have entrenched themselves in a comfortable position that they don’t want to give up.

Most won’t admit this to be the actual reason. Think about it: you are a normal hands on self thought software developer. You grew up tinkering with Linux and a bit of hardware. You realise there’s good money to be made in a software career. You do it for 20-30 years; mostly the same stuff over and over again. Some Linux, c#, networking. Your life and hobby revolves around these technologies. And most importantly you have a comfortable and stable income that entrenches your class and status. Anything that can disrupt this state is obviously not desireable. Never mind that disrupting others careers is why you have a career in the first place.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#399

Post by enraged_camel »

atmavatar wrote: post #339
simonw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it tell you that programmers with the credibility of antirez - and who do not have an AI product to sell you - are writing things like this even when they know a lot of people aren't going to like reading them?

Just because he doesn't have an AI product to sell doesn't mean he doesn't have a bias. For all we know, he's heavily invested in AI companies. We have to abandon the appeal to authority and take the argument on its merits, which honestly, we should be doing regardless.

> We have to abandon the appeal to authority and take the argument on its merits, which honestly, we should be doing regardless.

I don't really agree. In virtually any field, when those who have achieved mastery speak, others, even other masters, tend to listen. That does not mean blindly trust them. It means adjust your priors and reevaluate your beliefs.

Software development is not special. When people like antirez (redis) and simonw (django) and DHH (rails) are speaking highly of AI, and when Linus Torvalds is saying he's using AI now, suggesting they may be on to something is not an appeal to authority. And frankly, claiming that they might be saying nice things about AI because of some financial motive is crazy.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#400

Post by BananaaRepublik »

embedding-shape wrote: post #352
BananaaRepublik wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is a section of programmer who actually do like the actual typing of letters, numbers and special characters into a computer... This sounds like an alien trying and failing to describe why people like creating things. No, the typing of characters in a keyboard has no special meaning, neither does dragging a brush across a canvas or pulling thread through fabric. It's the primitive desire to create som…

My entire point is that people are different. For some people (read through the other comments), it's quite literally about typing of characters, or dragging a brush across the canvas. Sure, that might not be the point for you, but my entire point of my comment is that just because it's "obviously because of X" for you, that doesn't mean it's like that for others. Sometimes I like to make music because I have an idea…

Let me get this right. You're telling me that in your personal experience, you don't abstract away low level actions like pressing keys of your instrument or typing on the keyboard? You're genuinely telling me you derive equal pleasure from music as the feel of the keys?

Nah bro, most of us learn touch typing and musical instrument finger exercises etc when starting out, it's usually abstracted away once we get competent.

AI takes away the joy of creation, not the low level actions. That's like abstracted twice over..

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