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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#891
post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

> I don't want my politicians deciding The whole concept of democracy is based on this: you elect politicians, they decide. If you don't like that, you don't like democracy. Which is fine, but then you don't get to defend it either as the best system under the sun, etc.

It's not obvious that democracy implies autocracy.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#892

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

> we are under daily attack from Russian accounts We would go a long way if our communication platforms weren't intentionally amplifying the most controversial voices for the sake of maximizing ad revenue. Back in the day the Russians needed to spend money to buy influence. Now they can just make their propaganda engaging enough and Western companies will happily host it and promote it for free .

Isn't that just "culture"? Let the best content win? It used to be that the USA was comfortable competing and winning along these lines.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“ The most famous dictatorship of the previous century was also democratically elected.” And how did it go from a democracy to a dictatorship? Because he convinced the people to give up their rights in response to a perceived threat.

It took many steps, not just a convenient on-topic one. And among those many steps, the US has taken most of them at this stage.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#894

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

That isn't a Russian. It is me, an American. It is convenient for you to dismiss my arguments as Russian so that you can ignore their validity. The same thing happens in the US: people dismiss arguments by saying they are right wing (i.e., from Republicans)

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#895

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

I am not on any social media so I don't even know what the propaganda is that you are talking about but there are ways to really filter out youtube in such a way (by following unbiased media houses) and I haven't seen much propaganda on youtube (I think)

> This is not about normal politics, Europe is under siege.

I am not European but this seems such an dangerous precedent to set upon. You mention destroying liberal democracy but also the fact that Europe is under siege makes people think of providing war time resolutions to Countries even for small details (and Mind you this ban itself has nothing to do with russia that much, its just the amount of influence football has in italy)

To me it feels as if by saying Europe's under siege, it gives more war time resolutions or justificiations for unmoral behaviour. In fact that's what happened right now. This also actively undermines democracy and one can clearly see how.

I understand your comment's in good faith and I appreciate it but I am just not even sure how this move of fining Cloudflare for not being in line for their censorship is related to this other instance.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are under daily attack from Russian accounts We would go a long way if our communication platforms weren't intentionally amplifying the most controversial voices for the sake of maximizing ad revenue. Back in the day the Russians needed to spend money to buy influence. Now they can just make their propaganda engaging enough and Western companies will happily host it and promote it for free .

Isn't that just "culture"? Let the best content win? It used to be that the USA was comfortable competing and winning along these lines.

Yes (sort of), but the definition of best has changed so drastically built on completely different benchmarks (engagement)

As an example, watch a really good documentary on something, I would consider it best

But it might have less views than some AI slop video perhaps even generated in a minute

Another aspect relevant to the propaganda discussion is that I think modern algorithms have decided that ragebait is the best form of engagement and this is why propaganda might spread fast and how social media might actually actively help the foreign nation

I would argue that this is one of the reasons social media actively harms but its that profit over all for social media seems genuinely harmful. We need more focus on bluesky and mastodon and other alternatives as well to establish a network effect there but also that I would argue that prosecuting social media / large tech companies should have such a case where something can be prosecuted criminally for a class law suit case so that these social medias can stay better in shape than being deranged

But the issue to me feels like I am already protesting Italian even fining because in this case to me it feels like abusing the vagueness of the law and other factors so I am sure that if we give govts more power they might have the ability to abuse it as well for some lobbying powers (in this case it seems to be football)

Everything boils down to what the genuine incentives of the govts are I guess. I mean some are trying to do somethings but I guess all of this is just really tricky and the answer is in a series of changes and not a single one. There is nuance to this like every other discussion

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#897
post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

Free speech for the individuals is needed, in terms of people should not be punished for what they say. But social media platforms owned by foreign countries is a danger for any democracy. There's a reason the US wants to capture Tiktok, Iran is shutting down the internet, and China has The Great Firewall. Since the US is turning away from Europe's interests, it's just logical that American platforms will be restrict…

There is a big difference between danger for democracy because of these addiction farming Social media platforms with propaganda and something like piracy as well though.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#898

The appeal to JD Vance is properly craven and validates the view that their business model is effectively a protection racket. Recall the unsavoury episode with taviso, when they lobbied the FTC to investigate him after he helped clean up their mess during Cloudbleed. They always pivot to aggression when challenged.

> The appeal to JD Vance is properly craven and validates the view that their business model is effectively a protection racket.

It's not craven, it's a mistake. It needlessly antagonizes the market at large to solve a smaller problem. I don't see how this benefits Cloudflare in the long run unless they've decided to throw in their lot with the current US regime. If so, what happens when that regime changes?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#899
post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective ban of GMOs across EU, ban on paternity tests in France without a court order are the two that come to mind for me.

What does the French law have to do with the EU?

Example of a crazy law within the EU

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

> I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself. The issue isn't whether politicians are deciding what's good or bad. The issue is that, in Europe, foreign actors with explicit ill intent are deciding a ton of the content your neighbours are watching/reading, day in day out, on the internet. AI has made this easier and even more scalable than befor…

>What the actual fuck do we do to defend ourselves, pray tell?

Delete smartphone, logout from abusive SaaS.

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