Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 2:12 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #49

Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

This article is comparing a C15 new in 1984 vs a secondhand one today. Really, the C15 represents a time when taxes were ~20% lower and there was a workable steel industry in Europe (which destroyed certain environments, especially around the Ruhrgebiet, whether the exact location was in France, Belgium or Germany). Oh and one major problem the C15 does have is that despite those stats, it is considered to NOT meet e…

Post by dgacmu » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

ramesh31 wrote: post #53

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight Decent catalytic converters require an array of sensors, ECU, and ability to fine control the engine inputs to work - without them most large cities would become smog ridden hells.

This is why late 90s cars are objectively the greatest ever built. You had ECUs, cats, ABS, disc brakes, airbags, power steering, and conventional automatic transmissions. Everything that makes a modern car safe and reliable, but none of the high tech digital BS that has infused things nowadays.

Post by roland35 » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 2:23 PM UTC

Fiveplus wrote: post #29

KronisLV wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Like take the C15 and add 2-4 decades of manufactur…

That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my head. 1. You keep the modern metallurgy and the crumple zones. You keep ABS and basic traction control because they are solved problems that save lives without needing cloud connectivity. 2. Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in…

Post by talkingtab » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 2:28 PM UTC

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 2:32 PM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #57

Fiveplus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, you are confusing a software race condition with a hard fault in a safety critical system. Resetting the ECU only works if the error is a transient glitch in the code logic. If the failure is a physical sensor reading out of range? Furthermore, modern automotive architectures store permanent diagnostic trouble codes in non volatile memory specifically to prevent people from "just resetting it" t…

> If the failure is a physical sensor reading out of range? Then you buy a new sensor and put it in, just like you would any other failed part. > You would need a proprietary manufacturer tool to force a relearn or adaptation. You can do almost anything you need to do with a non-proprietary Autel tool. I mean, I get it, the manufacturers are absolutely doing their best these days to lock up repair and maintenance. Bu…