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How Markdown took over the world

anildash.com

211–220 of 353 posts

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#211
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I don't understand Isn't this a table? |sn|name| |--|--| |1|George| |2|John| I feel like I've been doing this at least since about 2013? Edit: I get it now. It was not a part of the original spec. |sn|name | |--|------| | 1|George| | 2|John | It can look better if we use fixed width font and add padding I guess?

It can, the gripe that I don't have a good solution for is what happens when entry 3 is a 7-letter name?

you switch to org!

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#212
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multi-level lists, annoyingly, get rendered as code at the deeper levels because of the 4+ spaces from the beginning of the line. Not so. You just need to be principled with your indentation, adding four spaces or one tab for every level of nesting. 1. Here is a thing. - See, it works. Nothing is amiss. 2. If you want to align everything… - Then it looks like this. Then it doesn’t seem so weird. (You can leave or r…

I’m pretty sure many Markdown implementations would turn this into a code block. Unfortunately Babelmark seems to currently be broken so I can’t test it.

The original spec says it should work, and it does with https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/dingus>, as with https://spec.commonmark.org/dingus/>.

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#213
post #198

The author of CommonMark and Pandoc has a new format called Djot: https://djot.net/ that I've been meaning to check out. Supposedly more sane to parse, and it comes from someone who would definitely know about that sort of thing.

I like it, but it doesn’t seem to have a specification, making it hard to create a new implementation.

I think this is what you're looking for: https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/jgm/djot/b...

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#214

The original idea was there with html 1.0. The lesson we needed to learn was that some think you can't sell stuff to do things if doing them is simple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... Perhaps md is an opportunity to re invent the web: a browser for just md AND a search engine with an open algorithm that indexes just what is visible.

The funny thing is that HTML was supposed to be a markup language that could be read/written by hand, while making it also machine-to-machine friendly - notably by making some "semantic" features accessible for browsers. One of these for instance is the structure of the document; marking section headers was supposed to let browser to automatically generate a table of contents. Additionally CSS was supposed to let users choose how all this was displayed.

All of this failed - or rather, was undone and cancelled by the "modernization" of the Web. Namely the arrival of for-profit companies on the Web, be it Facebook of the press like the New York Times.

It was a boon as they brought valuable content, but they brought it with their own rules. The first set of which is the ads-supported model, which is by definition the opposite of free content; an ad-supported website is not free in a very sneaky way, and it's not just about privacy and manipulative practices (targeted ads, as if ads were not already manipulative enough). Users are actively prevented from consuming the content the way the want.

The situation today is that very few browsers offer out-of-the-box a way to apply a personal CSS, and I think none will generate a ToC from the headers of a HTML page.

And the "semantic" part - far from specialized and more accurate semantic markup frameworks that were considered - is being completely taken over by LLMs; an insanely expensive brute-force solution IMHO.

The web has already be reinvented mostly the way you suggest, see for instance the Gopher and Gemini protocols, but they'll stay forever "niche" networks. Which could be not so bad, as it is very clear that the Web is full of actors malicious to various degrees. Tranquility by obscurity?

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#215
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it, but it doesn’t seem to have a specification, making it hard to create a new implementation.

I think this is what you're looking for: https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/jgm/djot/b...

That’s a reference, not a specification. I would expect something like a formal grammar or a description of a parsing algorithm.

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#217

I think it's a littly funny he characterizes "Had the right flavor for every different context" as an advantage. It drives me crazy that Markdown is not the same everywhere and I'm still regularly getting confused about *bold* or **bold** or *italics*. (Curse you, Slack's weirdo version.) I respect Anil's argument that the extensibility has helped it be adapted to different contexts, and in practice the looseness of…

It took me a long time to see the variations as a plus and not a minus; as a veteran of the RSS-vs-Atom wars, I was long an advocate of Technical Correctness(tm) like any good coder. But the years since then have made me a lot more amenable to what I think of as a sort of Practical Postelism, which I guess is like applied worse-is-better, where we realize the reality is that we'll _always_ have forks and multipliciti…

Ah, Anil, but have you fought the plaintext syntax wars yet?

Jokes apart, regular, standardised, visually-suggestive syntax is a key reason I've stuck with org-mode despite its limited acceptance in the world at large.

The many flavours of markdown make it /less/ portable than org syntax, in my experience. As the post below says, "Pandoc lists six different Markdown flavors as output formats." This is not great for collaboration --- now we need some sort of middleware or advanced editor to help people work with more than one syntax format. Besides, mixing syntax in the same document is a boo-boo, because parsers only work at file-level, not semantic token level.

Owing to this, at times, I go as far as to /author in orgmode, but share in markdown/ (org-export), and slurp back and forth (tangle / detangle).

Cue:

Org Mode Syntax Is One of the Most Reasonable Markup Languages to Use for Text: https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is based on Objective-C/Smalltalk, not on C++. It's strictly worse than its original too. There's a lot to be said for the rule of least power, but it's not nearly powerful enough.

It’s irrelevant what it is based on. Those are the words of James Gosling. > It's strictly worse than its original too. Tell me more of those exiting stories. I’d like to hear them.

Well for one thing, ObjC has messaging and value types! Wait, that's two things.

Re: How Markdown took over the world

#219

> ...that it was too difficult or inconvenient to write out full HTML by hand It's not necessarily that writing HTML or other markup flavors is harder (obviously it is), but the beauty of Markdown for me is that it's perfectly readable in its raw form as well as with an applied styling. And speaking of customizing the 'look' of markdown, a shameless plug for a markdown editor I've been working on with extensive custo…

Blank page with JavaScript disabled says to me: nothing to see here, move along.
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