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Oh My Zsh adds bloat

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Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#21

Post by SkyPuncher »

MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #12
g947o wrote: post #4

I use oh my zsh for exactly one reason: I can get a good shell experience out of the box and immediately start working on stuff productively, whether it's a new machine, a new remote host or a container. I could spend hours figuring out all those things, bit I'd rather use that time for something more important.

> I could spend hours figuring out all those things, This post is explaining how to set up those things. Less than five minutes to read.

That misses the point. I don’t even want to think about any of that stuff.

It’s a single command to install oh-my-zsh. I can fire it off, check Slack, and come back in 5 minutes. If I have to take 5 minutes to setup it up, I’m just not going to do it.

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#22

Post by lillecarl »

maxbond wrote: post #10
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #9

You probably don't need zsh. POSIX shells are holding us back.

Show me an environment where I can interact with my system programmatically, where I can compose together arbitrary tools, and which will never, ever, ever break on me, and I'll switch! My experience with graphical environments has been that they rarely compose, often break, and constantly make arbitrary changes that break my workflow. So every time I try something else I end up coming back to the terminal. But I agr…

https://fishshell.com/ https://xon.sh/ https://www.nushell.sh/ https://elv.sh/

You're replying to someone that says POSIX shells are holding people back, not that the terminal is a bad idea, there are many alternative shells which offer benefits over POSIX shells. fish-shell has everything you want from an interactive shell included, xonsh is a mix Python shell, nushell and elvish are adding types and other things to shell.

The VT protocols that all shells have to confirm with are pretty dated and I'd love to throw them off the roof for something less stateful and with multiple font sizes but there's no arguing that text based interfaces are good.

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#23

Post by bitwize »

I may not need this sort of shell bling. And I don't use it. But my first Unix system was an early version of Xenix, which had the original Bourne shell that didn't even support cursor up to get a previous command. (I do use cursor up, C-r, and the shell editing commands.)

But yesterday's conveniences become today's essentials, and those who came in after me have their expectations set by the much more sophisticated things available at the time. Like, I'm still flabbergasted by people—working professionals—who go "I can't program without syntax highlighting, autocomplete, and my IDE generally going bing bing wahoo at me as I work, and I don't know how anybody can." We just type the code in. Like we all had to back in the day.

Anyway I can certainly see where someone younger than about 35, or who came to Linux late, would be completely at sixes and sevens without their colorized racing-stripes shell prompt.

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#24

Post by tcoff91 »

g947o wrote: post #4

I use oh my zsh for exactly one reason: I can get a good shell experience out of the box and immediately start working on stuff productively, whether it's a new machine, a new remote host or a container. I could spend hours figuring out all those things, bit I'd rather use that time for something more important.

Yeah but you can use something like zim that is better than omz but still easy. The shell starts so fast with zim and it is a breeze to set up

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#25

Post by alkh »

Like many other people, I use oh-my-zsh for default setup and that's it. I literally use a single plugin for git and very actively autoload my custom functions to avoid startup delay. With my 384 line config and oh-my-zsh on, here are the results:

$ hyperfine -N "zsh -lc 'exit 0'" "zsh -c 'exit 0'"

Benchmark 1: zsh -lc 'exit 0'

  Time (mean ± σ):      54.5 ms ±   6.3 ms    [User: 10.2 ms, System: 14.3 ms]

  Range (min … max):    38.1 ms …  64.9 ms    78 runs
Benchmark 2: zsh -c 'exit 0'

  Time (mean ± σ):       6.5 ms ±   1.4 ms    [User: 0.8 ms, System: 1.3 ms]

  Range (min … max):     3.9 ms …  14.2 ms    424 runs
It's crazy how their startup time is 380 ms, and I suspect something else might be the reason, not just oh-my-zsh

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#27

Post by [deleted] »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #21
MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could spend hours figuring out all those things, This post is explaining how to set up those things. Less than five minutes to read.

That misses the point. I don’t even want to think about any of that stuff. It’s a single command to install oh-my-zsh. I can fire it off, check Slack, and come back in 5 minutes. If I have to take 5 minutes to setup it up, I’m just not going to do it.

[deleted]

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#29

Post by _ache_ »

metax wrote: post #3

Or simply use fish

Yeap, each time I need a complex shell script, actually Python is a better chose. I just don't need a POSIX compliant shell

     /usr/bin/time -f "%e seconds" fish -i -c exit
     0.21 seconds

Re: Oh My Zsh adds bloat

#30

Post by jabwd »

alkh wrote: post #25

Like many other people, I use oh-my-zsh for default setup and that's it. I literally use a single plugin for git and very actively autoload my custom functions to avoid startup delay. With my 384 line config and oh-my-zsh on, here are the results: $ hyperfine -N "zsh -lc 'exit 0'" "zsh -c 'exit 0'" Benchmark 1: zsh -lc 'exit 0' Time (mean ± σ): 54.5 ms ± 6.3 ms [User: 10.2 ms, System: 14.3 ms] Range (min … max): 38.1…

Trying doing the benchmark in a git repo.
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