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“Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

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Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether powered by human or computer, it is usually easier (and requires far fewer resources) to verify a specific proof than to search for a proof to a problem.

Professors elsewhere can verify the proof, but not how it was obtained. My assumption was that the focus here is on how "AI" obtains the proof and not on whether it is correct. There is no way to reproduce this experiment in an unbiased, non-corporate, academic setting.

What bias?

It seems to me that in your view the sheer openness to evaluate LLM use, anecdotally or otherwise, is already a bias.

I don't see how that's sensible, given that to evaluate the utility of something, it's necessary to accept the possibility of that utility existing in the first place.

On the other hand, if this is not just me strawmanning you, your rejection of such a possibility is absolutely a bias, and it inhibits exploration.

To willfully conflate finding such an exploration illegitimate with the findings of someone who thinks otherwise as illegitimate, strikes me as extremely deceptive. I don't appreciate being forced to think with someone else's opinion covertly laundered in very much. And no, Tao's comments do not meet this same criteria, as his position is not covert, but explicit.

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#172
post #36

For context, Terence Tao started a wiki page titled “AI contributions to Erdős problems”: https://github.com/teorth/erdosproblems/wiki/AI-contribution... (as mentioned in an earlier post https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/115818402639190439 ) — even relative to when he started this page less than two weeks ago (Dec 31), the current result (for problem [728]) represents a milestone: it is the first green in Section 1 of that…

Very interesting that the vast majority of proofs formalized by AI (section 6) were only completed in the last few months. Exciting times ahead!

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you verify that the AI translation to Lean is a correct formalization of the problem? In other fields, generative AI is very good at making up plausible sounding lies, so I'm wondering how likely that is for this usage.

That's what's covered by the "assuming you have formalized the statement correctly" parenthetical. Given a formal statement of what you want, Lean can validate that the steps in a (tedious) machine-readable purported proof are valid and imply the result from accepted axioms. This is not AI, but a tiny, well reviewed kernel that only accepts correct formal logic arguments. So, if you have a formal statement that you'v…

I think the question is, how can humans have verification that the problem statement was correctly encoded into that Lean specification?

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#174
post #68
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reconfiguring existing proofs in ways that have been tedious or obscured from humans, To a layman, that doesn't sound like very AI-like? Surely there must be a dozen algorithms to effectively search this space already, given that mathematics is pretty logical?

I actually know about this a bit since it was part of what I was studying with my incomplete PhD. Isabelle has had the "Sledgehammer" tool for quite awhile [1]. It uses solvers like z3 to search and apply a catalog of proof strategies and then try and construct a proof for your main proof or any remaining subtasks that you have to complete. It's not perfect but it's remarkably useful (even if it does sometimes give y…

1 Does this mean that Sledgehammer and Coqhammer offer concolic testing based on an input framework (say some computing/math system formalization) for some sort of system execution/evaluation or does this only work for hand-rolled systems/mathematical expressions?

Sorry for my probably senseless questions, as I'm trying to map the computing model of math solvers to common PL semantics. Probably there is better overview literature. I'd like to get an overview of proof system runtime semantics for later usage. 2 Is there an equivalent of fuzz testing (of computing systems) in math, say to construct the general proof framework? 3 Or how are proof frameworks (based on ideas how the proof could work) constructed? 4 Do I understand it correct, that math in proof systems works with term rewrite systems + used theory/logic as computing model of valid representation and operations? How is then the step semantic formally defined?

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#175
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "G" in "AGI" stands for "General". While quickly I noticed that my pre-ChatGPT-3.5 use of the term was satisfied by ChatGPT-3.5, this turned out to be completely useless for 99% of discussions, as everyone turned out to have different boolean cut-offs for not only the generality, but also the artificiality and the intelligence, and also what counts as "intelligence" in the first place. That everyone can pick a di…

> consider that this can't drive a car, so it's not fully general So blind people are not general intelligences?

A blind person does not have the necessary input (sight data) to make the necessary computation. A car autopilot would.

So no we do not deem a blind person to be unintelligent due to their lack of being able to drive without sight. But we might judge a sighted person as being not generally intelligent if they could not drive with sight.

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#176

I work at Harmonic, the company behind Aristotle. To clear up a few misconceptions: - Aristotle uses modern AI techniques heavily, including language modeling. - Aristotle can be guided by an informal (English) proof. If the proof is correct, Aristotle has a good chance at translating it into Lean (which is a strong vote of confidence that your English proof is solid). I believe that's what happened here. - Once a pr…

This is the forst time I heard about Aristotle and find it very interesting. First question first: is it available for the general public? I don't know if this is the page to try it? [1]

Second, when you say language modeling support, it means that can better understand code representation (ASTs) or something else? I am just an AI user, not very knowledgeable in the field. My main interest is if it would be great for static analysis oriented to computer security (SAST).

[1] https://aristotle.ai/

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's covered by the "assuming you have formalized the statement correctly" parenthetical. Given a formal statement of what you want, Lean can validate that the steps in a (tedious) machine-readable purported proof are valid and imply the result from accepted axioms. This is not AI, but a tiny, well reviewed kernel that only accepts correct formal logic arguments. So, if you have a formal statement that you'v…

I think the question is, how can humans have verification that the problem statement was correctly encoded into that Lean specification?

They probably need to be able to read and understand the lean language.

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, this was exactly a "remix" of similar proofs that most likely were in the training data. It's just that some people misunderestimate how compelling that "remix" ability can be, especially when paired with a direct awareness of formal logical errors in one's attempted proof and how they might be addressed in the typical case.

Then what sort of math problem would be a milestone for you where an AI was doing something novel? Or are you just saying that solving novel problems involves remixing ideas? Well, that's true for human problem solving too.

> Then what sort of math problem would be a milestone for you where an AI was doing something novel?

What? If we're discussing novel synthesis, and it's being contrasted with answer-from-search / answer-from-remix.. the problem does not matter. Only the answer and the originality of the approach. Connecting two fields that were not previously connected is novel, or applying a new kind of technique to an old problem. Recognizing that an unsolved problem is very much like a solved one is search / remix. So what happened here? Tao says it is

> is largely consistent with other recent demonstrations of AI using existing methods to resolve Erdos problem

Existing. Methods. Tao also says "This is a demonstration of the genuine increase in capability of these tools in recent months". This is the sentence everyone will focus on, so what is that capability?

> the more interesting capability revealed by these events is the ability to rapidly write and rewrite new versions of a text as needed, even if one was not the original author of the argument.

Rejoice! But rejoice for the right reasons, and about what actually happened. Style and voice transformations, interesting new capabilities for fuzzy search. Correct usage of external tools for heavy-lifting with symbolics. And yes, actual problem solving. Novel techniques, creativity, originality though? IDK, sounds kind of optimistic based on the detail here.

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's covered by the "assuming you have formalized the statement correctly" parenthetical. Given a formal statement of what you want, Lean can validate that the steps in a (tedious) machine-readable purported proof are valid and imply the result from accepted axioms. This is not AI, but a tiny, well reviewed kernel that only accepts correct formal logic arguments. So, if you have a formal statement that you'v…

I think the question is, how can humans have verification that the problem statement was correctly encoded into that Lean specification?

The problem statement is apparently

> Let C>0 and ϵ>0 be sufficiently small. Are there infinitely many integers a,b,n with a≥ϵn and b≥ϵn such that a!b!∣n!(a+b−n)! and a+b>n+Clogn?

Which seems like it's the type of thing you give as a homework problem to state formally in an intro class.

Re: “Erdos problem #728 was solved more or less autonomously by AI”

#180
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually know about this a bit since it was part of what I was studying with my incomplete PhD. Isabelle has had the "Sledgehammer" tool for quite awhile [1]. It uses solvers like z3 to search and apply a catalog of proof strategies and then try and construct a proof for your main proof or any remaining subtasks that you have to complete. It's not perfect but it's remarkably useful (even if it does sometimes give y…

1 Does this mean that Sledgehammer and Coqhammer offer concolic testing based on an input framework (say some computing/math system formalization) for some sort of system execution/evaluation or does this only work for hand-rolled systems/mathematical expressions? Sorry for my probably senseless questions, as I'm trying to map the computing model of math solvers to common PL semantics. Probably there is better overvi…

These questions are hard to understand.

1. Yes, the Sledgehammer suite contains three testing systems that I believe are concolic (quickcheck, nitpick, nunchaku), but they only work due to hand-coded support for the mathematical constructs in question. They'd be really inefficient for a formalised software environment, because they'd be operating at a much lower-level than the abstractions of the software environment, unless dedicated support for that software environment were provided.

2. Quickcheck is a fuzz-testing framework, but it doesn't help to construct anything (except as far as it constructs examples / counterexamples). Are you thinking of something that automatically finds and defines intermediary lemmas for arbitrary areas of mathematics? Because I'm not aware of any particular work in that direction: if computers could do that, there'd be little need for mathematicians.

3. By thinking really hard, then writing down the mathematics. Same way you write computer programs, really, except there's a lot more architectural work. (Most of the time, the computer can brute-force a proof for you, so you need only choose appropriate intermediary lemmas.)

4. I can't parse the question, but I suspect you're thinking of the meta-logic / object-logic distinction. The actual steps in the term rewriting are not represented in the object logic: the meta-logic simply asserts that it's valid to perform these steps. (Not even that: it just does them, accountable to none other than itself.) Isabelle's meta-logic is software, written in a programming language called ML.

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