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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#531

Post by oaiey »

Pedro_Ribeiro wrote: post #462
Alupis wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.

Do people not understand that companies on this scale are geopolitically important?

Thank they should act like it and respect the laws of the countries.

If you run to the US executive to assert US understanding of law onto other countries you are geopolitical important, however, as a tool for the US national interest not as a true international company. A true international company would serve their customers in their legal systems. Fight the laws there, try to make them better, but don't strongarm them with other country forces. They are a sovereign country.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#533

Post by aniviacat »

joe_mamba wrote: post #302
Kelteseth wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making it sound way more dramatic than it is [1]. And yes X is a far right echo chamber that twists the narrative so that the extreme right get the most support out of it. X is the biggest help for foreign power to sow discord among us [2] [1] https://www.dw.com/en/crime-statistics-knife-crime-drugs-lif... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj38m11218xo

[flagged]

I'm unsure why you're spinning a discussion about foreign interference in the EU into a discussion about Republicans vs. Democrats.

To the EU, it doesn't matter much if it's the Republicans or the Democrats doing it. What matters is that the USA is trying to interfere with the EU's political landscape.

It would be bad if they pushed the extreme left, too. They just happen to be pushing the extreme right.

(The reason right-wing political violence is more talked about in the EU is also rather simple: It is much more prevalent. https://www.bka.de/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Deliktsbereiche/PMK/PMK...)

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#534

Post by _23sd »

riedel wrote: post #396
alanfranz wrote: post #49

Italian here. If somebody wants to read the full document about the fine (in italian) it's here: https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delib... Part of this doc states: ``` The rights holders also declared, under their own responsibility, providing certified documentary evidence of the current nature of the unlawful conduct, that the reported domain names and IP addresses were unequivocally intended…

I would like to see a similar rant about the DMCA from US CEOs, which amounts to similar global effect. Not a great law but all this censorship stuff is bullshit. To replicate the rant: Cloudflare on the otherhand blocks me regularly from using the Internet using a privacy aware browser because I fail to pass their bot checks so that I can enter their CDN based replica of a real internet.

To be fair big tech did do a full court press to stop site blocking when such a law (SOPA/PIPA) was proposed in the US, and they continue to oppose the MPA's attempts to get site blocking via the courts. DMCA on the other hand seems very broken, don't give the MPA the "3 strikes" regime they want and you get sued into the ground like Cox. I suspect tech CEOs don't complain about this because they don't want the same treatment.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#535

Post by rpdillon »

ilogik wrote: post #512
rpdillon wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare is clearly in the right. Global censorship from an unaccountable cabal is a moral wrong. There's no sense in which Italy somehow 'wins' here, because even if they win, they lose.

AGCOM and cloudflare ceo can all be wrong and horrible at the same time. You don't have to pick a side

Agreed!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46557533

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#536

Post by wmf »

Root_Denied wrote: post #489
riffraff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the filters the Italian authorities complain about also only apply in italy. It's likely a process thing, Italy has had website bans since forever, but the new regulation applies _without going through a judge_. Some copyright holders can say "this website is infringing" and ISPs, CDNs etc.. are required to shut them down immediately. A similar system was introduced in Spain, with the same problems, for the same reas…

> EDIT: to be clear, CF argues that they need to block the DNS globally, and that's unreasonable. The Italian authority argues that they have the skills to do a local block and are just being uncooperative. Similar to the UK's attempt to try and get noncompliant sites like Imgur and 4chan to block themselves from serving content to UK locations, I think the responsibility for country-wide blocks lies with the country…

The difference is that Imgur/4chan have no presence in the UK but Cloudflare has servers and probably a sales office in Italy. Cloudflare does have to follow Italian law within Italy.

Either Cloudflare can block pirate sites or ISPs will completely block Cloudflare (as seen in Spain). Which way do you prefer?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#537

Post by oaiey »

Alupis wrote: post #452
croes wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers are for legal issues. Do you call your government if you get a fine in a foreign country? Unless it’s life threatening I doubt that.

You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.

When the risks are too high, then exit the market. When you do business in a market, adhere to the laws there.

It is however the business of governments to foster harmonized (globalized) markets. But the US has killed so many regulations and collaborations in the last year, that there is little hope that this will improve any time soon. They do not want globalization anymore but American first. Reactions of other countries will be higher fines, more regulation and higher entry barriers.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#538

Post by NorwegianDude »

NewJazz wrote: post #444
tekacs wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're threatening to remove servers from Italy. They're explicitly NOT threatening to block Italians from being able to access sites through Cloudflare. I have my fair share of problems with CF, but I assume here that they're threatening higher latency (i.e. requests from Italian users would have to go to a neighboring country to be routed) rather than blocking.

Also Italy would see (very slightly) lower GDP because data centers would have less demand from CF.

How freaking expensive do you think infrastructure is? It's not that expensive, and certainly not anywhere close to the point where it would make a noticeable impact on GDP.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#539

Post by dandellion »

Pedro_Ribeiro wrote: post #462
Alupis wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.

Do people not understand that companies on this scale are geopolitically important?

Maybe that's the way it is in the US, because the country is run by corporations. But in the rest of the world we don't operate like that.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#540

Post by immibis »

enricotal wrote: post #505
alanfranz wrote: post #49

Italian here. If somebody wants to read the full document about the fine (in italian) it's here: https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delib... Part of this doc states: ``` The rights holders also declared, under their own responsibility, providing certified documentary evidence of the current nature of the unlawful conduct, that the reported domain names and IP addresses were unequivocally intended…

Also another Italian here. For context, the "Piracy Shield" mentioned in the order is basically a legislative hacksaw authorized by the regulator (AGCOM) primarily to protect Serie A football rights. Soccer rules Italy more than the Vatican.. It’s a mess technically: it mandates ISPs and DNS providers to block IPs/domains within 30 minutes of a report, with zero judicial oversight. It’s infamous locally for false pos…

Can someone report a bunch of government websites and legal streaming services and see what happens?
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