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Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#131

Post by skywhopper »

stuffn wrote: post #34
PaulHoule wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that depression kills and optimal therapy is: anti-depressants, exercise AND talking therapy and the time to start is NOW. I wouldn't knock the effectiveness of any of them with the caveats that: (1) you can get anti-depressants from you primary care doc, the best practice is to start on something, ramp up your dose and try something different if it is not working or you don't like the sides. I really thoug…

Or avoid medication for anything but treatment resistant depression. SSRIs are not well understood. Their side effects are not great. Getting off them is miserable. I had them. I felt dead inside. Mission accomplished. Depression was gone, so was my desire to eat, have sex, or do anything else. I wasn’t depressed, I was a zombie. 8 adjustments and medications later I got off them and realized they’re yet another pill…

[flagged]

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#132

Post by isk517 »

Exercise is great, just make sure to take sometime to evaluate where you are at mentally. I was running about 40 miles and doing 5 hours of lifting per week to try and stay a head of my depression, and when I finally burnt out everything came crashing down all at once.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#133

Post by HauntingPin »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #42
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster you responded to didn't claim that drugs were universally helpful. I think the main point is that there is no universal that works for everyone. For some exercise works, for some drugs, for others therapy. And "works" isn't a yes/no, one might work a little for you, one might work super great.

The poster questioned the universality of exercise. And the went on to say that drugs worked for them in the next sentence. Clearly the two statements are related.

Anecdotal data isn't sufficient to infer a universal rule. The point of my comment wasn't to argue for drugs. It was to push back against the idea that drugs like anti-depressants are unnecessary and bad, which I see all the time when this topic comes up. A common take is "why use or prescribe drugs when apparently exercise works fine against depression?"

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#134

Post by WalterBright »

RickJWagner wrote: post #97
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

I subscribe to Arnold Schwarzenegger’s newsletter, which has a surprising amount of great, well researched content. Right after New Year’s Day, he said pretty much what you said. Discipline beats Herculean effort that’s sporadic.

Scott Adams said it a different way - systems over goals.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#135

Post by HauntingPin »

resumenext wrote: post #119
HauntingPin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also question the universality of it. No amount of exercise changed my depression or made life any less miserable. Anti-depressants finally helped me get past the trauma I was unable to properly process otherwise.

I hesitate to ask but what is your gender? I think there may be very gender specific effects in this comparison. I would also be very curious the type and intensity of exercise and whether you had comorbidities that impact ability to train (obesity, low testosterone, etc).

I'm male. I've done everything from cycling to 5-10k running to heavy weightlifting. The only other thing I have is ADHD, no other comorbidities.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#136

Post by [deleted] »

ericmcer wrote: post #128
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

It is really easy to have a routine when you are single and healthy in your 20s. It stops working so well later on. If you have friends, partner, kids, parents, pets, work, health issues etc. the routine is going to be challenged. If that only happens once every few months no big deal, but now that I am in my late 30s with a partner, kid, 3 pets and elderly parents. I literally have something derail my day almost eve…

[deleted]

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#137

Post by chaostheory »

ericmcer wrote: post #128
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

It is really easy to have a routine when you are single and healthy in your 20s. It stops working so well later on. If you have friends, partner, kids, parents, pets, work, health issues etc. the routine is going to be challenged. If that only happens once every few months no big deal, but now that I am in my late 30s with a partner, kid, 3 pets and elderly parents. I literally have something derail my day almost eve…

I’m in the same situation as you as well many other people who still workout. The trick is to remove as much friction as possible for working out and adding friction to activities that aren’t good for you. For example, if you don’t have time for the gym, make it easier to workout at home, make working out the very first thing you do when you wake up, etc…

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#138

Post by javanissen »

cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

I think the real exhortation is to develop a multi-pronged strategy for managing depression. I didn't feel like my depressed life got durably better until I had both exercise and therapy, and there are still times where things aren't going well with no clear discernible reason. I suspect that adding a low dose of medication on top would help.

Every additional coping mechanism you add, that works well for you, provides defense in depth.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#139

Post by carlosjobim »

CrossVR wrote: post #53
LorenPechtel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, which is why diets fail. People who are fat generally do not have enough available willpower to lose weight.

This has more to do with hunger requiring a tremendous amount of willpower to ignore rather than fat people having less willpower than people of average weight.

It takes a tremendous amount the first 3-7 times. After that it is a learned skill.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#140

Post by roguechimpanzee »

bluerooibos wrote: post #109
smeej wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period. Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes? I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

All you need to do is go to sleep before 12 every single night and wake up at 7am without fail, hit the gym and crank out a few sets of squats, hit the pool and the sauna, read a chapter of that book, and then cook yourself an amazing breakfast, all before 9am. If you're a real go-getter, though, you'd wake up at 6am and do some vibe coding for an hour on that side hustle. Super simple.

I know you’re being smart but these things are all possible if you want to make them happen
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