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(l)uriel has passed away

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Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#71

Post by potatolicious »

tripzilch wrote: post #62
philh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing that hellbanning (the way it's doled out on HN) solves better than regular bans, suspensions or warnings. Sure there is: griefers. The problem is that hellbanning is the only kind of discipline, and it gets handed out too easily. And you're (probably) right that this in turn makes it less effective against griefers than it could be. But it's still more effective than a regular ban.

Sorry I'm only familiar with the concept of griefers in online gaming. How does the phenomenon manifest on HN?

Griefer is just a troll - or perhaps a more extreme troll, one that will go substantially out of their way to evade a ban and continue being an asshole.

A hellban has its utility, but it cannot be the only method for censuring abusive users. It needs to only be applied in cases where the user is likely to try and continue to antagonize the community by dodging a regular ban, and sparingly.

The problem with hellbanning on HN is that everyone knows it's going on, and it's become such a big deal that it greatly reduces its effectiveness. As you said, if a troll suspects they're being hellbanned, they can easily just sign up for another account.

I'm of the opinion that hellbans are way too common on HN where in almost all cases a regular old suspension/ban would have sufficed.

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#72

Post by egypturnash »

potatolicious wrote: post #71
tripzilch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I'm only familiar with the concept of griefers in online gaming. How does the phenomenon manifest on HN?

Griefer is just a troll - or perhaps a more extreme troll, one that will go substantially out of their way to evade a ban and continue being an asshole. A hellban has its utility, but it cannot be the only method for censuring abusive users. It needs to only be applied in cases where the user is likely to try and continue to antagonize the community by dodging a regular ban, and sparingly. The problem with hellbannin…

Shit, I didn't know it was going on here until this thread.

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#74

Post by CamperBob2 »

potatolicious wrote: post #71
tripzilch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I'm only familiar with the concept of griefers in online gaming. How does the phenomenon manifest on HN?

Griefer is just a troll - or perhaps a more extreme troll, one that will go substantially out of their way to evade a ban and continue being an asshole. A hellban has its utility, but it cannot be the only method for censuring abusive users. It needs to only be applied in cases where the user is likely to try and continue to antagonize the community by dodging a regular ban, and sparingly. The problem with hellbannin…

Indeed... a few minutes after you turn on showdead you'll see that hellbanning is not used primarily for troll control. Trolls are people who post goatse links or overtly inflammatory opinions that they clearly don't even hold.

Instead, hellbanning on HN is used on people who disagree with someone who has the power to do something about it. It's used to dismiss people who stray outside the hive and fail to toe the party line... a party line that isn't even written down anywhere.

It's lame, and IMHO pg needs to reign in some of the more obvious moderation abuses.

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#77

Post by astrobe_ »

nemo wrote: post #64
dmorgan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because "free speech" is nice and all, but there are some opinions that you should not have, even on a liberal place like Hacker News. One should not be allowed to divert from popular opinion (be it popular in society in general, in some conservative circle, or merely popular within the hip crowd), even if he is not being trollish and is providing arguments about it. In issues where most HN people agree, you sho…

I hadn't communicated with uriel on Hacker News, so perhaps he had better behavior here, but part of the reason I avoided him was because of interactions with him on reddit. He was a really bright guy, and when discussing software he had a lot of valuable insight, but religion and politics got him behaving in ways that were destructive to communities. On reddit he would get belligerent to the point of being verbally…

Last time I checked, a significant part of the posters on suckess.org mailing list(s) have quite an aggressive communication style. People lurking on these mailing lists can eventually get over it, and eventually exchange interesting arguments between the flames; but it's clearly fully counter-productive outside of that place.

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#78

Post by fastball »

forgotusername wrote: post #18
relix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An unprovoked jab at newbies, way to be original. Not appropriate for the topic at hand, in my opinion.

It most certainly wasn't meant as a jab, more genuine sorrow for the industry's growing maturity. The disconnected, experimental environment where even a modem was a luxury, that gave rise to the kind of exotic personalities common of the 80s (and 90s - dare I even include myself) has steadily been replaced by a well understood lifestyle common to millions. I wouldn't have thought it controversial to say that as a re…

Then get out of IT and move to the frontier...

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#79

Post by aaronbasssett »

forgotusername wrote: post #18
relix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An unprovoked jab at newbies, way to be original. Not appropriate for the topic at hand, in my opinion.

It most certainly wasn't meant as a jab, more genuine sorrow for the industry's growing maturity. The disconnected, experimental environment where even a modem was a luxury, that gave rise to the kind of exotic personalities common of the 80s (and 90s - dare I even include myself) has steadily been replaced by a well understood lifestyle common to millions. I wouldn't have thought it controversial to say that as a re…

"exotic personalities common of the 80s". He would have been a baby/toddler in the 80s. You do know he was only 30?

Re: (l)uriel has passed away

#80

Post by patrocles »

dmorgan wrote: post #25
pygy_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enable the `showdead` option. He was hellbanned for voicing a dissenting opinion in a thread about sexism.

Yes, because "free speech" is nice and all, but there are some opinions that you should not have, even on a liberal place like Hacker News. One should not be allowed to divert from popular opinion (be it popular in society in general, in some conservative circle, or merely popular within the hip crowd), even if he is not being trollish and is providing arguments about it. In issues where most HN people agree, you sho…

Yay. We label Uriel a troll and not Pando Daily or any other daily controversy generators.
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