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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#41

Post by ben_w »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #19
adrr wrote: post #4

Elon Musk the bastion of free speech who famously banned a twitter account that posted publicly available information.

If someone says they believe in free speech, they have to let me spraypaint anything I want on their house. Otherwise they're a hypocrite.

If they publicly state that the house is a "town square" (he has said that of twitter), and they say that they are a "free speech absolutist" (he has said this of himself in the context of this house/town square/website), and state that "By 'free speech,' I simply mean that which matches the law.", then yes, if they don't let you spray-paint (tweet) whatever you want that's not strictly unlawful (like, ah, calling for civil disorder in the UK?), they are indeed a hypocrite.

When the house is digital (twitter is), why even use spray paint as the analogy?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#42

Post by testdelacc1 »

s-y wrote: post #14
adrr wrote: post #4

Elon Musk the bastion of free speech who famously banned a twitter account that posted publicly available information.

Musk is a contrarian. He, however, is not a government body (nor does he represent one, u can choose to include the dubious Doge efforts into the discussion but that will devolve into semantics that do not negate the point). As a private citizen with a platform for which he overpaid - he can do as he pleases within the confines of said platform. Musk, however, cannot enforce fines on other providers and request stuff…

He can do whatever he wants on that platform. Equally, can elected officials decide to ban that private platform?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#43

Post by IncreasePosts »

Dotnaught wrote: post #31

By "shadowy cabal of European media elites," is Prince referring to elected Italian officials? What have they asked Cloudflare to ban?

The driving force behind this is getting pirated streams of football matches knocked offline. Currently by the time any action is taken the match is over, which is why they want the response-within-30-minutes.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#44

Post by grayhatter »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #29
grayhatter wrote: post #13

I do appreciate reading a PR, from a CEO, that's not unsalvageably tone deaf. At the first half, I was wondering what the point of this was, given if Italy thinks this is something they're allowed to apply across the globe. That instantly makes this a political issue they probably need to be talking to the State Department about. Then I got to the 2nd half, and was impressed that I wasn't immediately annoyed by the a…

> was impressed that I wasn't immediately annoyed by any ass kissing. Did it only annoy you after reading it again?

No? In a disagreement with Italy, cloudflare is definitely going to need the intervention of the US administration. This (angry Twitter post) is how you're expected to ask for help in this timeline. I was expecting to annoyed with the faux allegiance. But here, I think they communicated their distain over the behavior as best as they could, while still asking for help.

I might not like it, but I understand it.

Equally, I might be wrong; but this feels to me like the post tries to as subtly as possible communicate that they have problems with the administration (my expectations for anyone who is at all ethical) While still also needing their help. And if I'm wildly incorrect; and cloudflare is actually in love with the administration, then it's still a master class in rhetoric, because they tricked me, which was probably the point?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#45

Post by elAhmo »

ilc wrote: post #24
littlestymaar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One? Elon banned thousands after he took over. He event went as far as personally canceling a Tesla customer's order for criticizing him. That's how petty he is. He has no interest in freedom of speech whatsoever, it's merely a talking point.

I disagree. Freedom of Speech guarantees the right to speak. Not the right to have no repercussions. Elon has GREAT interest in Freedom of Speech, it enables him to have far more power than regulating the type of "speech" he showed in cancelling that customer's order.

Elon has interest in monetary gain and stirring conflicts around the world. It is sad that individuals like you are drunk on his coolaid.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#46

Post by deadbabe »

Arbortheus wrote: post #12

I agree with the CEO, while also feeling a bit nauseous at the MAGA Musk suck-up at the end - I suppose this is the game you have to play with this current administration.

It really doesn’t matter what administration is in charge, at a certain level you have to curry favor with whatever administration is in power and hold your true motives close to your chest. People seem to think what people say in public is perfect knowledge of their true intentions. No. What they say is what they want someone to hear them say. There is nothing to gain by saying what you really feel, no one can prove it’s what you really feel anyway.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#47

Post by Foxboron »

So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Heraled by Matthew as "this is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with".

However a fine that amounts to ~0.7% of the annual revenue and they threaten to block an entire country?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#48

Post by iamnothere »

bflesch wrote: post #11

Not a good look on that guy to list his "pro-bono" services and threaten to pull them while asking JD Vance for his help. How is he expecting the Milano-Cortina 2026 Winter Olympics to influence some representative of media right holders who have fined Cloudflare? Is he assuming that just because all of the listed things are Italian they can just make the fine go away?

This is taking place in a larger geopolitical context. He is applying whatever pressure that Cloudflare can apply on its own (not much), and he mentions Vance as a way to call for US administration help at a time when the US is entering an open economic conflict with Europe. Tech and speech regulation is a central feature of that conflict.

IMHO this is a time when there are no good players. I support CF’s fight to keep the internet open against encroaching EU regulation while also acknowledging that the US has been a recurring bad actor here. I am not as anti-Cloudflare as some (I have no problem with their pro free speech policies) but I do think centralization of infrastructure is a bad thing, and CF encourages that.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#49

Post by alanfranz »

Italian here.

If somebody wants to read the full document about the fine (in italian) it's here: https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delib...

Part of this doc states:

``` The rights holders also declared, under their own responsibility, providing certified documentary evidence of the current nature of the unlawful conduct, that the reported domain names and IP addresses were unequivocally intended to infringe the copyright and related rights of the audiovisual works relating to live broadcast sporting events and similar events covered by the reports. ```

So, I'm not sure anybody verified that what the right holders claimed was actually true. While I understand what AGCOM (the italian FCC, more-or-less) is trying to do, it seems that, as usual, a law was created without verifying how the implementation of such law would work in practice (something very common in Italy), and this is the result.

Cloudflare CEO seems irate, and some of his references are not great, but I'd be inclined at thinking he's got at least _some_ reason on his side.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#50

Post by Almondsetat »

andy99 wrote: post #3

I don’t know the backstory but Cloudflare arguing for an open internet is super ironic, presumably he means they want the be the one to close it off and are upset that someone else is ruining their monopoly on it.

Here's the backstory:

A government agency in Italy which is known nation-wide to complain and fine other institutions for the stupidest and pettiest reasons, fined another institution for a stupid and petty reason. But of course, ignorant people just see this single occurrence and make up conspiracy theories about it. (Really, if you looked at some examples of previous fines and complaints by AGCOM you would laugh your ass off independently of your political stance)

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