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Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
271–280 of 426 posts
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
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If you want to play lawyer, that's great but everyone just watched an execution of a mother in broad daylight. I think most reasonable people would agree that this is over the top especially because they made it extremely hard to render aid after it happened. Not to mention the various training documents that say not to do what this ICE agent did: stand in front of a car then incapacitate the driver. It's not just "p…
Everyone also saw a car move forward directly towards a person before his weapon was even drawn.
If he did not follow procedure that will be accounted for in the investigation. I am sure that question will hinge on whether or not from all the angles and prior to the vehicle moving if the officer was in a position that was against procedure.
They state can certainly try and bring charges if it wants to, but that doesn’t automatically mean that prosecution will be successful or that the officer is guilty, the officer right now and until tried, is innocent. Any prosecutor still will need to prove their case and from my perspective, overcoming the qualified immunity in this case will be difficult.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#273At what point do U.S. citizens realise that ICE is in fact a terrorist organisation?
Not a lawyer, but I've been thinking a lot about under which conditions stand your ground laws might apply to people defending themselves against law enforcement officers. The power balance is still such that most people won't shoot at a police (or ICE) officer, so I don't think it's likely to happen, but there is already legal precedent[1] regarding it. [1] https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2020/05/when-stand-your-ground…
I’m actually somewhat surprised that one of the masked, badgeless officers hasn’t been shot yet. So many of the actions look like a cartel kidnapping and some of them are happening in states with stand your ground laws where the major factor would be whether the person felt threatened.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of convicted criminals were pardoned already. People with connection to January 6 United States Capitol attack are all pardoned, some got promoted. There's something going on with Ghislaine Maxwell's situation too. US just abducted the president of a sovereign country and international law no longer means anything too. The president himself is also a convict. He is also implicated with many sexual assaults(alleg…
I think it may be different because firstly it's clearly murder or an unlawful shooting if you watch the video, and secondly because being shot by a masked officer for trying to drive down the road could happen to pretty much any American so I imagine they'll complain. That doesn't apply to the Jan 6th people or Maxwell - it's not part of people's everyday life.
Clearly murder has almost never stopped the police. If ICE is anything like that, odds are this dude is gonna get a nice vacation.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#275Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#276The comment section here is an incredibly disturbing read, as to how many people are trying to justify this on-site extra-judicial execution. Let me start by saying that all this debate itself is meaningless to start with. No police or law and order agency is supposed to execute a civilian under these circumstances in any country. That should instantly be taken as a murder by an official empowered to prevent exactly…
It happens every time the police murder someone. These people can't see this for what it is - state-sponsored public execution.
It doesn't matter what she did, the punishment for no crime in the US is public execution. We have courts, law and order. Everyone is missing the forest for the trees.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#277The comment section here is an incredibly disturbing read, as to how many people are trying to justify this on-site extra-judicial execution. Let me start by saying that all this debate itself is meaningless to start with. No police or law and order agency is supposed to execute a civilian under these circumstances in any country. That should instantly be taken as a murder by an official empowered to prevent exactly…
Thank you for taking the time to set this all down and in the way you did.
Yes, this is how it happened: good people standing by, doing nothing.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#278Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Lon Horiuchi was charged with sniping an innocent woman holding a baby but I'll admit he wasn't convicted. So it's totally possible the murderer gets locked up for a few years while facing trial and then released. Which would be at least a couple years sentence since murder trials take 1-2 years to prepare and you get basically no compensation for time spent imprisoned awaiting trial.
Again, “murder” is charge that requires conviction. People keep using it here when its not appropriate to do so. I realize they are caught up in the emotion and not viewing things pragmatically. I am trying to provide a window to let people see that this is probably not black and white.
I am not claiming that this officer did not cause the death of this woman. I am suggesting that because of LEOs having qualified immunity, this being a situation that happened very quickly, and that there are real questions about how this happened and why, that there is a high legal bar to overcome when analyzing it.
It’s going to be legally murky and that alone will make it very difficult to waive the immunity.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
She was literally just driving down the street where there was an ice operation. The government employee that murdered her had the road blocked with his vehicle. She had to stop or drive into the oncoming lane. Traffic rules and basic safety state you stop, then proceed if safe into the oncoming lane. She waves a car to go in front of her to go before she does. She was then shouted at by agents that APPROACHED HER VE…
> Bro, you aren't anti qualified immunity, you are totally cool with it. > You are cool with this mother being murdered, and her daughter left an orphan tonight, Nope, quite the opposite, I’m just not caught up in the heat of the moment they way you are. When this is evaluated legally your emotion will not be taken into account. I specifically left emotion out of my observation and kept my observation as coldly speci…
Your logic would defend the Boston massacre that started our country. Your default reaction is to be un-American.
Bro you shit posted FAFO to a 37 year old mom being murdered because she turned down a street that ice randomly had an unmarked car parked in the middle of. You aren't rational. You aren't middle of the road. You literally smuggly posted FAFO as your response to a mom with her call full of her childs stuffies, because she drove down the wrong street and ended up blocked by an unmarked car. That isn't normal, that isn't American. Like I said, check yourself, because you are lost. I left California for a red red state because I was middle. I know what 'middle' means. Middle means default being against arbitrary federal government use of force, especially when lethal. You can lie to yourself that you are middle. Don't lie to me, thanks.
Your totally rational position: If ICE blocks the road with an unmarked car like in this case, if you stop, you are interfering with their activities. If you don't stop, you are a threat to their life and they can kill you.
Normal people get emotional when that becomes the new normal from their government. Not post FAFO. And you never address anything contradictory to your position. You are purely posting talking points. You aren't middle of the road. You are all in on this. You own it as much as any MAGA bro.
ARMED GOVERNMENT AGENTS YELLED AT HER TO MOVE MOVE MOVE. THE AGENT IN QUESTION VIOLATED HIS TRAINING AND PROCEDURE. THE AGENT IN QUESTION STEPPED UP IN NO FEAR FOR HIS LIFE WHEN SHE WAS BACKING UP, HE DID NOT MOVE AWAY LIKE SOMEONE IN FEAR WOULD. SHE WAS A RANDOM MOM THAT DROVE DOWN THE WRONG STREET. You are a crappy American trying to justify/normalize this. You are a crappy American saying FAFO is valid procedure for law enforcement in the USA. You are allowing our country to devolve into something awful. You are cool with that. You are NOT middle of the road.
The government/cops can defend their actions without you. The middle position, and our job as Americans, is to hold our government accountable. Not justify a government where a mom can be murdered because she drove down the wrong street. You are lost. I was a libertarian dumb ass once, but I checked myself and realized I wasn't being honest. I wasn't being a good person nor American, I was being a political animal for shallow, unevenly applied weak/shallow political theory.