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Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

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Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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She was literally just driving down the street where there was an ice operation. The government employee that murdered her had the road blocked with his vehicle. She had to stop or drive into the oncoming lane. Traffic rules and basic safety state you stop, then proceed if safe into the oncoming lane. She waves a car to go in front of her to go before she does. She was then shouted at by agents that APPROACHED HER VE…

> Bro, you aren't anti qualified immunity, you are totally cool with it.

> You are cool with this mother being murdered, and her daughter left an orphan tonight,

Nope, quite the opposite, I’m just not caught up in the heat of the moment they way you are.

When this is evaluated legally your emotion will not be taken into account. I specifically left emotion out of my observation and kept my observation as coldly specific as possible because that is how this will play out legally. Unless something changes drastically, no criminal legal ramifications will come of this.

> You are OK with it today, because it is in alignment with your politics

Nope again. My politics run across a spectrum and don’t directly align with any party. Recently I think the democrats have descended into utter lunacy, but GOP candidates almost never get my vote. In fact, in the last 15 years only a single GOP politician has gotten my vote and only because I knew his opponent personally and specifically voted against him.

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#182

Militia on our streets without discipline or uniforms. That's what caused this tragedy. The administration early on made the decision to allow/ require ICE agents to wear whatever tactical gear they had, along with masks, and authorized/ required an intentional lack of insignia. The lack of a uniform and insignia is a real problem for ordinary Americans. We're used to subjecting ourselves to authority. We're willing…

That’s a really interesting observation. If ICE field policy allows or even requires employee anonymity then, as a thought experiment, imagining them all in hockey masks helps emphasize everything that’s wrong with such a policy. I can think of even more inflammatory examples of face coverings, of course.

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Watching an innocent and beautiful American woman being shot in the face three times at point blank range in broad daylight by an agent of her own federal government while sitting in the cocoon of her car, in a confrontation that could easily have been avoided if the federal agents had simply waved her on through... this is more than "a domestic crime", as you put it. You may forget that the US drone strikes on alleg…

Why would you think that anyone outside of the US cares about what your regime does to you?

I'm pointing out - for the umpteenth time - the sheer hypocrisy of the West, and especially the US.

What your regime has been practising since 1945 outside of your borders has finally reached your own towns and cities, and frankly the only question I have is, what took so long?

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I am exactly advising a second amendment solution as it was written. An armed force must exist that can bring people like the ICE murderer into custody, and prevent further such incidents from happening in the future. Conventionally, the National Guard would play that role, but they have been illegally coopted by the out-of-control executive.

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Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#185
post #95

There are at least 3 different videos from different angles. Here are all of them. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Gb_IkGVK7WvsTAXfMvQU... I've watched them all repeatedly. It's clear she was blocked in at the front, trying to pull out, and yielded, waving the ICE vehicles to go around front. They instead got out, needlessly attempted to drag her from her vehicle, and she freaked out and tried to GTFO by turn…

False narrative here. Watch the full length videos. This does not show what happened leading up to the issue. This lady was protesting ICE and physically driving her car into police officers. She refused multiple police orders, then attempted to murder a police officer with her car. She was justifiably shot in self defense.

Dude seriously, watch the video in slow motion and make a sane judgement. There's no reason at all they should've done that. She wasn't even running over him or pointing a gun or anything. If they wanted to catch her they could've done it.

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#186

I think it’s beyond undeniable at this point that America has slid definitively into fascism. The parallels with 1930’s Germany are just too obvious to deny.

The scariest thing to me is that you can see which folks are either all in on the regime or working overtime to push out propaganda. Because we have video of the incident from multiple angles and the context really is just that an ICE agent outright murdered someone.

I completely agree. It’s frightening that a government official (Noem) is already pushing a one-sided, matter-of-fact narrative so soon after such an obviously controversial incident. That is not the action of a competent, top-level leader. What’s frightening is they appear to be getting away with it.

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#187
The comment section here is an incredibly disturbing read, as to how many people are trying to justify this on-site extra-judicial execution. Let me start by saying that all this debate itself is meaningless to start with. No police or law and order agency is supposed to execute a civilian under these circumstances in any country. That should instantly be taken as a murder by an official empowered to prevent exactly that. As far as I understand, ICE is not even a law and order agency and has even less authority to do so.

The woman was occupying just one lane, which means there is no merit to the claim that she was obstructing them. And then no matter what she did next, the masked agents just walk up to her vehicle and try to pry open her door and pull her out. That is not what the police do. That's what the mafia does. Anybody facing such a harrowing situation is likely to panic and try to get away. A real officer would know that and won't shoot a panicked and unarmed person who has her hands on the wheel. Nothing about the circumstances suggest a regular confrontation with a law and order agency. It's a terror campaign. The people arguing the self-defense claim based on some flaky technicalities are psychopaths who lack any respect for human lives.

Whenever I mention Nazism in here to make a serious point, I get downvoted based on some unexplained moral outrage. It's either because 'it's so disturbing' or because people don't like the comparison with the worst that humanity has produced, or because I'm 'cheapening' (trivializing) the Holocaust and insulting its victims! Lame in my opinion, because there is no worse insult to its victims than to just let the horrors repeat!

Well, these outraged people can just stay outraged all they want, because I'm going say this in no uncertain terms. The US and HN has a real Nazi problem - at least in ideology, if not outright in spirit. And another Holocaust is not entirely out of the question either, because back in the past too, it wasn't that well known in public even among the German citizens until the allied forces overran the concentration camps. Who knows what is going on in the shadows right now, when so many people are comfortable with justifying murder, racism, invasions and imperialism?

You're too pretentious if you think that the horrors of the past can't repeat, because history sets precedents and shifts the Overton window. I know that HN is primarily a technical forum. But I seriously don't care if I lose my entire HN score for this, because what is the point of having any technology if it is to live like slaves under tyranny? This is one matter that well worth saying out loud, no matter how unpopular it is or how disturbing a suggestion it is.

Now let's look at the atrocities that ICE has committed so far. Intimidation/terrorizing, destruction of property, attacks on local law enforcement, kidnappings, child abuse, racial discrimination, denial of justice/due process, illegal warrantless arrests and detention, inciting riots, armed attacks on unarmed civilian protestors, attack on media personnel, attack on elected representatives (the last three constituting attack on democracy), human trafficking, torture and murder. It pretty much ticks all the agenda that the Gestapo used to have. Does Nazism sound all that improbable now? Governments around the world should be classifying ICE as a state-funded terrorist organization right now and sanctioning its leaders and members. They should be arrested and tried at Hague or Nuremberg if they step outside the US.

I'm deeply disturbed by how fast we forget the fragility and preciousness of human lives. And the worst is that we have historical examples showing us what will happen. And yet, we relentlessly justify their replay unconcerned?

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't blocking at all. Please watch the video. In one of them a car passes in front of her without trouble. It's a 2 lane 1 way road, she's only in 1 lane.

I'm not debating that's the case in the vids we have but my question stands.

It does not. Even if what you speculated was true that is not a capital crime, and that 'officer' (I use the word lightly) is not judge, jury and executioner.

Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE has no legal ability to detain or arrest citizens or enforce traffic laws. So, regardless, they should have called the police.

Are you really suggesting that an armed federal law enforcement officer doesn’t have the ability to detain someone that they suspect is interfering with one of their operations? You might want to cite some case law here supporting that assertion. They may not be able to charge someone with a traffic infraction but can they detain someone? Absolutely.

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Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you point to me the part where she was interfering with their enforcement and duties? So is it perfectly normal for a civilian vehicle to just be blocking a street at a 90 degree angle during an active ICE operation where there are other protestors present? “Deliberately antagonizing” might be an explanation, perhaps “unintentional but poorly timed three point turn” is another. Either way, it’s interfering with…

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The MAGA world in a nutshell: they will find a way to justify anything at all, including murder at point blank range because the alternative would require them to admit fractional responsibility for the outcome and that's the one thing they really can not do.
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