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Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

donutlab.com

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Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#251

Post by OdisUlises »

OdisUlises wrote: post #249

I am confused... Why this so called Solid State Battery with 20.2 kWh can only achieve 350 km, while current battery that is used in "Charged Rimau" ( an electric motorcycle that is used in Indonesia) can achieve 200 km with only 5.4 kWh??? I expected more from a 20.2 kWh SSB, perhaps no less than 1500 km... Maybe someone here can explain why?

Or maybe they should more emphasis about the weight of the battery. I mean, instead of saying "Our 20.2 kWh battery pack delivers 350 km of range...", maybe "Our 20.2 kWh battery pack only weighs 50.5 kg and delivers 350 km of range, which is very difficult to achieve with current usual lithium batteries, because it will weigh around 100 kg and consumes larger space..." will be more understandable.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#252

Post by alex_duf »

stock_toaster wrote: post #237

_IF_ true, this seems like it would also be a big deal for both electrical grid infrastructure (load smoothing), and laptops.

For grid storage the only two things that matter are cost and reliability. So it would be a big deal, but it's not the public for whom it would be the biggest deal.

I think light aircraft doing short flights might be pretty interested by the technology. I remember 400 Wh being a threshold above which flights become feasible.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#253

Post by CastIron888 »

calmbonsai wrote: post #221
CastIron888 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not old enough? How about a steam engine with the front axle bolted to the boiler? A steam boiler is subject to considerable stresses already and adding dynamic forces to the shell can't be a good idea? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Kemna_ro...

Heh, that's not a monocoque, but it's definitely directly bolting the engine to one suspension component. WJW. We've come so far.

You can see in the picture the boiler is taking the load of the machine. There is no additional chassis.

That's less frame than a Ducati has between the front and rear wheels.

Without speaking to the wisdom of stressing batteries mechanically, the idea of using drivetrain components as structural members of a vehicle is as old as self-propelled vehicles.

Hell, even a chariot sees the horse taking a part of the vehicle load.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#255

Post by zooweemama »

dust42 wrote: post #168
dm808 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is from Nordic Nano. It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Free of lithium, cadmium, lead, and cobalt. Uses abundant raw materials free from geopolitical constraints. https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784 Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376 Verge Motorcycles bike with the new battery at CES, apparently at West Hall 5658. Video: https://youtu.be/vmsxYznW9Fs Donut Lab booth here:…

> It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Nanoprinted snakeoil - infinitely scalable. Good enough to grab 3M€ public grants and some more from gullible private investors. Honestly, if they had the tiniest proof of their claims (400Wh/kg, 5min 0-100%, operating temp -30°C to 100°C, no Li/Co/Mn and somebody looking at the production and taking the output to the test) they would be absolutely drowned in money to the p…

This is an honest question for my understanding: how would a scam like this work? Take investor money and spend it on yourself? Or give yourself an outrageous salary?

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#256

Post by impossiblefork »

rootusrootus wrote: post #233
impossiblefork wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the reason I might trust it to some degree is that they're Finns (and Finns don't usually hype things or bullshit), and it's not just one firm. They've got the motorcycle firm (Verge) in the video, they've got the some other guy, so if these guys just went along with bullshit claims they're kind of ruining the image of their company for no reason. I don't understand how it can be done though.

> They've got the motorcycle firm (Verge) in the video FWIW, they are basically the same company. It is good that there were other cameos from independent customers, though, to help add some possible credibility.

Ah, yes.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#257

Post by ninkendo »

rootusrootus wrote: post #228
tempsaasexample wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in California, and cost per mile of electricity vs gasoline is pretty similar in a Gen 1 Chevy Volt. I get 35 miles per gallon. That's also how for I can go on 10kwh in the good conditions. If gasoline is below $4.50 a gallon, it's cheaper to just run the volt on gasoline than it is to charge it at home.

That's particular to PG&E, as I recall, not all the utilities in California are so horribly mismanaged or got sued for burning an entire city to the ground. IMO the state should burn PG&E to the ground and replace the entire management structure with people who don't suck.

It’s also the case for me in the Midwest. I drive a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and it gets about 32 miles per gallon and 32 miles on a charge, and a 16KWH battery. Electricity is $0.22 during peak hours, which equates to a breakeven point of $3.52 per gallon. Non-peak is $0.18, which is a breakeven of $2.88 per gallon. Gas is usually around $3 per gallon so I have to remember to not charge it until after 7pm (this is a setting you can set in the car to make it automatic.)

I’ve since bought solar panels for my house so it makes charging a lot more obvious, but I think it’s actually quite common for people to be paying more for charging than for gas.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#258

Post by ninkendo »

zelon88 wrote: post #242
wmertens wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In armageddon, you would run out of fuel around day 3 and then that's it. A CyberTruck will charge just fine from anything that can generate the proper AC or DC, no phoning home needed. Many home solar installations can work off grid and charge your car.

To charge a 57,000 watt tesla with an 800w consumer solar panel would take 71 hours of sunlight. There is not 24 hours of sunlight in a single day. This also is not considering the battery management which heats the battery passively. So it would take a week to charge a Tesla with equipment that you could carry inside the car.

Strange that you assume a single solar panel? If you’re installing solar at home, wouldn’t you install more than one panel?

I have a 15KW setup at home (kinda large, but adjust the numbers to what’s reasonable for you), it should charge the Tesla in less than 4 hours.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#260

Post by subscribed »

dust42 wrote: post #180
dm808 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cnvc.org/store/nonviolent-communication-a-langua...

Here some info about the claim of 600km/344m range of Verge motor cycles as it was said and shown in the video. The website of Verge bikes states the following: City estimate 600km: "The city estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of calm stop-and-go riding in an urban environment at low speeds. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wi…

Out of all the possible angles to attack the product you chose some really weird ones.

Bike in question: https://gearjunkie.com/motors/verge-motorcycles-ts-solid-sta...

- range: it's quite.... obvious this is naked and not a sport bike, so the air resistance (or Cx if you prefer) will be very high. Compare any super sport with any naked bike. It's just the profile.

- charging time/rate: you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied

- and finally handling: we have yet to see it tested, an you already categorically claim this bike will not be easy to handle because of the "high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel" - i refer you to the pictures above. Almost all the mass is low or central to the bike. Just perfect. Far from the awkward, top heavy adv bikes some people ride. Also claimed 1000Nm / 130 HP is far beyond the usual beginner segment, so I'd expect experienced riders will handle it easily.

All in all - maybe your expectations re:battery are true and it's all snake oil. But using the bike as a proof of the falsehood based on your GUESS is not acting in a good faith.

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