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Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

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Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#201

Post by _DeadFred_ »

leptons wrote: post #196
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H visa program has been heavily exploited since the 1990s when I started in tech. By recent do you mean 26 years?

Was the visa program being exploited by Onlyfans models and "influencers" in the 1990's? Because that is what is being talked about here.

Your statements such as

"only applies to recent development" "For the entirety of the H visa program" "is a recent thing. The kickbacks are a relatively new thing."

expand the conversation scope to responding to what you state, and for me to say that in fact what you are claiming is incorrect.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#202

Post by cosmicgadget »

decimalenough wrote: post #9

This has no hope at all of passing. Marjorie Taylor Greene is on Trump's shit list after daring to demand the Epstein files too loudly, and she's introducing these bills on her last day in Congress as a symbolic gesture to her base.

And potentially as a parting shot at Trump.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#203

Post by Muromec »

myk9001 wrote: post #172
Muromec wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me. I guess the GP wants to save 1k a month in case the nuclear war happens and drives a car to eat kebabs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. That sounds about right for American, so the saving are going towards health issues down the line. /s

And GP guesses your comment might be using humor as a coping mechanism. I'm not American, the question was why Europe can't keep talent ("talent" doesn't really include me). Well, the compensation is just depressing. And as that person from Ireland pointed out, all the talk about worker protections is barely more than fairy tales (maybe not in the Netherlands, idk). Were we looking at 120 instead of 80, deciding betw…

I got it that you were talking about the real situation and you personally have to live with flatmates while making 80k p/a, but it turns out you don't even live in Germany. My feeling are hurt by this and the fact that your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#204

Post by remarkEon »

RealityVoid wrote: post #91
remarkEon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The purpose of the United States government is to benefit the people already here . It is not reasonable to assume that Americans should have to compete with the labor pool of the entire planet. >But it turns out that for many of you it's about the place you happened to be born. This meme needs to die. It was not some sort of accident that I was born in this country, it was the consequence of generations of cons…

> Americans should have to compete with the labor pool of the entire planet. You almost always do, with houw our world is set up. No matter what you believe. > it was the consequence of generations of conscious decisions and actions. Oh, yeah, you are worthy, the others aren't. Got it. > it is perfectly reasonable to want my government to prioritize the needs of me and my compatriots over those of others who are not…

I think the hyperbole in your comment is clouding your point, which appears to be that you are skeptical that immigration restrictionism is on balance good for the United States, to which I’d say that immigration restrictionism is actually the default setting and the current era of high immigration is unprecedented and new. This is the same pattern in Europe as well. The US achieved its super power status during one of the more restrictionist periods for immigration in its history, so I don’t follow how moderating immigration just a little bit equates to “throwing it away”.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#205

Post by myk9001 »

Muromec wrote: post #203
myk9001 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And GP guesses your comment might be using humor as a coping mechanism. I'm not American, the question was why Europe can't keep talent ("talent" doesn't really include me). Well, the compensation is just depressing. And as that person from Ireland pointed out, all the talk about worker protections is barely more than fairy tales (maybe not in the Netherlands, idk). Were we looking at 120 instead of 80, deciding betw…

I got it that you were talking about the real situation and you personally have to live with flatmates while making 80k p/a, but it turns out you don't even live in Germany. My feeling are hurt by this and the fact that your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).

I don't feel like discussing my personal situation on the Internet. And was careful not to imply otherwise.

That said, I was considering relocating to Germany and researching the country as best I could. I do prefer European lifestyle, but the salaries are just a non-starter.

You can easily check the numbers I give though. Any specific mistakes there?

Btw, why are you so defensive about the fact comp is so low in Europe?

> your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).

> what 20% downpayment?

20% downpayment is generally expected by German banks if you want to take out a mortgage. Don't take my word for it, check yourself.

500K Eur x 0.2 / (12 * 1K Eur) = 8.3 years.

You implied that saving 1K a month is some absurd goal. I'm trying to show that's tablestakes if you hope to ever own a home.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#206

Post by phs318u »

mrtksn wrote: post #123
mattnewton wrote: post #11

Not only are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I feel like the current rhetoric in the US doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of the metaphorical baby anymore. The strongest advantage of the US has always been the ability to absorb global talent. I don’t think that is a popular view anymore, and we are instead stuck talking only about stopping abuse that is ultimately still bringing skilled workers to t…

US looked like the next stage of humanity, if you are ambitious you go to USA. Anyone can become American and didn't feel like betrayal to the country or the people who raised you. Whatever you achieve in USA it will be available to all the humanity. Fast forward to mid 2020s, now USA feels like old style European country that is rich as f and about to go through stages of great suffering to eventually become a natio…

I agree with your points about how the USA used to be viewed globally, and that the predominant feeling is disappointment (or in my case, sadness).

However, your characterisation of European countries as “shitty” is unfair IMO. I’m reminded of the saying “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other ones). Europe is FAR from perfect, but the long arc of history factors large in their politics and humanistic predilections (relative to other countries that is). They have living memory to just how devastating divisions on the continent can be. So yes, the EU may be the shittiest form of government... except for all those other ones (acknowledging that this paraphrase only makes sense if your values are similar).

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#207

Post by mrtksn »

phs318u wrote: post #206
mrtksn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US looked like the next stage of humanity, if you are ambitious you go to USA. Anyone can become American and didn't feel like betrayal to the country or the people who raised you. Whatever you achieve in USA it will be available to all the humanity. Fast forward to mid 2020s, now USA feels like old style European country that is rich as f and about to go through stages of great suffering to eventually become a natio…

I agree with your points about how the USA used to be viewed globally, and that the predominant feeling is disappointment (or in my case, sadness). However, your characterisation of European countries as “shitty” is unfair IMO. I’m reminded of the saying “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other ones). Europe is FAR from perfect, but the long arc of history factors large in their politics…

Sorry, I should have written it more clearly. What I ment by a "shitty European country" was in the context of pre-democracy, something like fast developing country that sees lots of advancement in science and technology but the population suffers greatly due to inequalities and lack of rights or regulations against unfair labor practices. This used to be the case of UK for example. It's also the case for many developing countries today.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#208

Post by myk9001 »

Muromec wrote: post #203
myk9001 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And GP guesses your comment might be using humor as a coping mechanism. I'm not American, the question was why Europe can't keep talent ("talent" doesn't really include me). Well, the compensation is just depressing. And as that person from Ireland pointed out, all the talk about worker protections is barely more than fairy tales (maybe not in the Netherlands, idk). Were we looking at 120 instead of 80, deciding betw…

I got it that you were talking about the real situation and you personally have to live with flatmates while making 80k p/a, but it turns out you don't even live in Germany. My feeling are hurt by this and the fact that your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).

> My feeling are hurt by this

Well, my feelings are hurt by seeing so many talented engineers getting compensated so badly.

How come that for all the signing and dancing about worker rights protections when push comes to shove it's US companies EU offices that are ready to pay their employees fairly? What kind of hypocrisy from EU companies is that?

If you think EU companies just cannot afford to pay that much, just compare what Siemens pays to the same level SWE in EU and US. (Have no relation to Siemens whatsoever, just an example).

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#209

Post by myk9001 »

Muromec wrote: post #100
myk9001 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally would be much more happy to work for lower pay than contributing to the prosperity of such a predatory country. Even if that pay was so much lower that you'd have to split your rent with flatmates? (yes, European comp is typically that bad, not oveblowing this) Then I admire your principled position, but you're one in a million.

>Even if that pay was so much lower that you'd have to split your rent with flatmates? (yes, European comp is typically that bad, not oveblowing this) In tech? Not really. Village kids having studies in the city -- sure, when they are too fancy to live in a dormitory. Tech is more like having a mortgage without your partner contributing kind of salary.

OK, come to think about it, I have to admit, a job in Tech means you can afford renting a place on your own.

I let my frustration with European comp levels take the best of me. My bad.

Re: Bill to Eliminate H-1B Visa Program Introduced in Congress

#210

Post by baubino »

mattnewton wrote: post #11

Not only are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I feel like the current rhetoric in the US doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of the metaphorical baby anymore. The strongest advantage of the US has always been the ability to absorb global talent. I don’t think that is a popular view anymore, and we are instead stuck talking only about stopping abuse that is ultimately still bringing skilled workers to t…

> The strongest advantage of the US has always been the ability to absorb global talent.

Among the many inexplicable things the current US administration is doing, abandoning soft power in favor of returning to militaristic brute force makes the least sense to me. Soft power costs less, is easier to maintain, and creates a vast moat. Giving that up is nuts.

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