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Game Over

antirez.com

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Re: Game Over

#51

Post by PuerkitoBio »

ahelwer wrote: post #20
blackhole wrote: post #8

Some people are going to say that he was in the right, and some will argue this is a consequence of being wrong, but this doesn't matter. What this illustrates is the dangerous precipice that the world of blogging is hanging on to, where the violent hatred that spews forth when anyone writes a remotely controversial opinion threatens to silence any opinion that sways too far from mainstream consciousness. The fact th…

I see this from a different perspective. We are finally getting to the point where a critical mass of people are not going to tolerate sexist misinformed crap as they encounter it, and will instead speak out en masse. The blog post on sexism wasn't a "controversial opinion." The author wasn't bravely standing up to the mainstream. It was just his crappy opinion that tech needs to continue to try very hard to move pas…

He was silenced with thousands of page views on his blog. He was silenced with hundreds or thousands of tweets. He was silenced by making HN front page. Yeah "controversial" opinions are really in danger.

Re: Game Over

#52

Post by mindslight »

antirez wrote: post #9
silentmars wrote: post #6

Is there a link to the thing that happened to set off this post? I read the previous post and its comments and saw nothing out of the ordinary.

long story short, a blog post about sexism I wrote generated a reply that remembered me that I was probably not in a communication environment I was happy to be in... so I'm finding new ways to communicate that don't involve tweets.

Welcome back to the same sycophantic groupthink that had cast computing as such a breath of fresh air back when you first learned to program. While the legacy middleman economy went to shit, tech matured into the hot new thing - surprise surprise, the ignorant mob has arrived (and no, they care not for Internet philosophy). We came looking for intellectual independence, they come looking for 'social'. Much easier said than done, but don't let the bastards grind you down.

Re: Game Over

#53

Post by [deleted] »

_delirium wrote: post #22
blackhole wrote: post #8

Some people are going to say that he was in the right, and some will argue this is a consequence of being wrong, but this doesn't matter. What this illustrates is the dangerous precipice that the world of blogging is hanging on to, where the violent hatred that spews forth when anyone writes a remotely controversial opinion threatens to silence any opinion that sways too far from mainstream consciousness. The fact th…

> "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire Wouldn't you then likewise defend the right of people to criticize the post, including to criticize it harshly, even if you disagree with he criticisms or the way they're phrased? edit: That said, I can see a case for communities maintaining discourse norms, in order to promote discussion/etc. But to me that's preci…

[deleted]

Re: Game Over

#54

Post by jhickner »

Anyone smart enough to have an interesting opinion on this topic is probably also smart enough to see that there's absolutely no upside to expressing that opinion. It either parallels the mainstream (in which case it's redundant) or it differs in some way, in which case it invites a retaliatory shitstorm.

In a nutshell Salvatore said that he prefers to raise the level of abstraction (as programmers are wont to do) from focusing on how _female_ humans are treated unequally to focusing on how _all_ humans are treated unequally. At worst isn't this a disagreement on methodology rather than a disagreement on values?

What purpose has been served by turning this topic into a third rail?

Re: Game Over

#56

Post by bo1024 »

dmix wrote: post #25
waratuman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People did not criticize the post but the person.

Free speech still applies even if it's offending another person.

The point is, some types of free speech should be encouraged and some types discouraged. I think you should be allowed to flame people, but I'm not obligated to provide you a venue to do so, and I'd really rather you didn't.

Re: Game Over

#57

Post by abraxasz »

jhickner wrote: post #54

Anyone smart enough to have an interesting opinion on this topic is probably also smart enough to see that there's absolutely no upside to expressing that opinion. It either parallels the mainstream (in which case it's redundant) or it differs in some way, in which case it invites a retaliatory shitstorm. In a nutshell Salvatore said that he prefers to raise the level of abstraction (as programmers are wont to do) fr…

>Anyone smart enough to have an interesting opinion on this topic is probably also smart enough to see that there's absolutely no upside to expressing that opinion.

That's my exact conclusion for pretty much every interesting/controversial topic. There's a very small circle of people (not necessarily friends by the way) with whom I exchange ideas on politics/religion/philosophy or anything potentially controversial. I know these people are smart and enjoy an educating conversation. To the rest of the world I just spew the usual boring conventional opinion when I'm forced to, or change the subject altogether when I'm allowed to..

Re: Game Over

#58

Post by mdonahoe »

Aldebaran wrote: post #45

The gist is basically "People should be treated the same way regardless of gender/race/...", which I agree to entirely, people who are trolling are probably incompetent women or sexually frustrated nerds afraid of losing the few female interactions they are exposed to in the workplace.

"people who are trolling are probably incompetent women or sexually frustrated nerds"

You sound like you are trolling

Re: Game Over

#59

Post by _pius »

antirez wrote: post #3
tomasien wrote: post #2

While I agree that vitriol isn't the best response to someone displaying a lack of understanding, as you did, I hope you don't get defensive and instead try to learn something from the people who made reasonable critiques of your thoughts. Because they need some adjusting.

Hint: you are saying that my thoughts need to be "adjusted".

Hint: you are saying that my thoughts need to be "adjusted".

Yes, he did ... so what? That's his opinion. Didn't you just write an entire blog post about how everyone should be entitled to their own views?

This whole thing is little more than hypocritical whining on your part. You wrote an offensively naïve opinion piece about problems you've never faced and now you're shocked — shocked! — that those whom you've offended have responded in-kind with their own opinions that now offend you?

Embracing free speech also means recognizing the right of others to respond to you.

Re: Game Over

#60

Post by king_jester »

ahelwer wrote: post #20
blackhole wrote: post #8

Some people are going to say that he was in the right, and some will argue this is a consequence of being wrong, but this doesn't matter. What this illustrates is the dangerous precipice that the world of blogging is hanging on to, where the violent hatred that spews forth when anyone writes a remotely controversial opinion threatens to silence any opinion that sways too far from mainstream consciousness. The fact th…

I see this from a different perspective. We are finally getting to the point where a critical mass of people are not going to tolerate sexist misinformed crap as they encounter it, and will instead speak out en masse. The blog post on sexism wasn't a "controversial opinion." The author wasn't bravely standing up to the mainstream. It was just his crappy opinion that tech needs to continue to try very hard to move pas…

> The blog post on sexism wasn't a "controversial opinion." The author wasn't bravely standing up to the mainstream.

So very much this. The author wasn't deviating from the mainstream, he was promoting mainstream, sexist points of view regarding women and work. That many people took offense to this and called him out on it is to be expected.

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