Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

pandodaily.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#41

Post by bigthingnext »

"Suddenly everyone..."

Hyperbole. I'll believe it when I see it.

Even in print, there is only one NewYorker. There are some other mags that are almost comparable, but it's not like there are scores of them to choose from.

And how exactly does longform help websites advance their dodgey advertising tactics?

It's just my opinion but I honestly think writing on the web was better in the 1990's. These type of websites would likely be criticized today as "walls of text" and for not having enough JavaScript or using enough of the latest CSS or HTML features.

The more interesting question to me is the relationship between talented journalists and website developers. They do not necessarily see the world the same way. They operate from different models.

What if salaried journalists committed to the craft of writing (not pandering to advertisers or search engines) had the technological empowerment to build high speed, highly organised distribution (publishing) systems without the need to consult with web developers and accept developers' dreams of dodgey pay by the click web advertising? Do I believe there is a disconnect between the two groups? Yes.

There are still middlemen in publishing. They are just new middlemen. Alas, they can't afford to pay salaries as their predecessors could.

Perhaps what needs to be taught is the technical skill so that ageing journalists schooled in long form can cut out the middleman, start their own publishing businesses and hire the top talent to train the young people entering the field.

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#42

Post by astrange »

jeffool wrote: post #34
waterlesscloud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that I've actually finished the article (heh), I think it's asking a very good question. What she's really saying is: 1) Readers want good long-form articles 2) Some sites are even willing to pay for it 3) But, there are no longer up-and-comers being trained to produce such work, there are only the writers who already have the experience. What she's saying is not all that different from the complaint you see abou…

I worked in local TV journalism for about five years; an industry thrashing around to find its new footing to be sure. There are very few people there who are willing to do serious journalism. They don't know how to Google, or who to call. Many of those fresh out of college simply have no curiosity, and little imagination. It's not unusual to talk to some and find out their dreams of being the next Oprah or Brian Wil…

What were you looking for? Did you find it? It seems pretty unlikely you would, honestly.

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#43

Post by jeffool »

astrange wrote: post #42
jeffool wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in local TV journalism for about five years; an industry thrashing around to find its new footing to be sure. There are very few people there who are willing to do serious journalism. They don't know how to Google, or who to call. Many of those fresh out of college simply have no curiosity, and little imagination. It's not unusual to talk to some and find out their dreams of being the next Oprah or Brian Wil…

What were you looking for? Did you find it? It seems pretty unlikely you would, honestly.

I've mostly applied for other producer positions at TV stations. I've also applied for news writer positions and just a couple of journalism jobs in print/Internet media.

If you're asking what I was looking for money wise? I was in a market around 150 (DMA rank), in a city that was very cheap to live in. I had student loans of $800/month, and I'd like to be able to pay them, afford rent, water, power, food, and an Internet connection. I managed that in a cheap city with a roommate at 30k, so I'd like to make more in a larger city, given I have five years experience producing and five in the studio.

Which do you think unlikely? Me finding another job at all, or me finding a job that pays a wage approaching middle class?

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#45

Post by [deleted] »

jeffool wrote: post #40
barkingcat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the wrong approach. You don't train someone to produce such works. These types of proses are more like a personal distillation of experiences. You can take a handful of olympic athletes, pair them up with a great editor and writer team, and come up with a great story about what happened at the london olympics. That would be a cover worthy story. It's not about training writers who can churn out articles. It's…

I think you're painting all of writers with a single brush. I just can't imagine that a good understanding of the basics (which can be taught out of school, but should always be taught in school) doesn't help most people in their art. And we know that not all people learn the same way. I didn't go to journalism school. I don't even have a degree. (I dropped out of CompSci.) But I did work in news for five years (I po…

[deleted]

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#46

Post by barkingcat »

bigthingnext wrote: post #41

"Suddenly everyone..." Hyperbole. I'll believe it when I see it. Even in print, there is only one NewYorker. There are some other mags that are almost comparable, but it's not like there are scores of them to choose from. And how exactly does longform help websites advance their dodgey advertising tactics? It's just my opinion but I honestly think writing on the web was better in the 1990's. These type of websites wo…

great ideas - now we go and do it.

Check out http://mozillaopennews.org/

note - I work for mozilla.

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#47

Post by 001sky »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #14

In our recent reader survey almost every respondent answered why they read PandoDaily with a variation of the following: Long form content that isn’t afraid to call out powerful people. As long as those powerful people aren't your investors, no doubt. http://observer.com/2012/08/conflict-journalism-how-online-m...

-- Or your investor's friends

Or business acquantances or political pet-project holders. pretty soon, the world looks small, though...at the top :/

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#48

Post by pron »

luu wrote: post #16

Who's going to write it? How about the writers for The Atlantic , The Nation , The New Republic , The Wilson Quarterly , The Economist , The Paris Review , etc. I could fill up the length of a long-form article with names of publications that have long-form writing. The real question is, who's going to pay for it? This is like when someone complains that there aren't any good programmers out there, and, P.S., they're…

I spent 4 years freelance writing long-form narrative journalism stories for a foreign magazine, and let me tell you that I wouldn't even consider getting out of the house for less than $1500 per story + expenses. And that's for a short one.

(Oh, and I find Harper's to be the king of general-interest magazines.)

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#49

Post by bigthingnext »

barkingcat wrote: post #46
bigthingnext wrote: post #41

"Suddenly everyone..." Hyperbole. I'll believe it when I see it. Even in print, there is only one NewYorker. There are some other mags that are almost comparable, but it's not like there are scores of them to choose from. And how exactly does longform help websites advance their dodgey advertising tactics? It's just my opinion but I honestly think writing on the web was better in the 1990's. These type of websites wo…

great ideas - now we go and do it. Check out http://mozillaopennews.org/ note - I work for mozilla.

The idea is good i.e. teach journalists to hack. But there's a conflict of interest. Look who's doing the teaching. Mozilla and Google are in business together.

Mozilla != journalists

Mozilla == web developers == middleman

FAIL. (It's been tried before: Web developers purporting to "help" journalists. The results have not been good.)

Re: Suddenly everyone wants New Yorker style content. Who is going to write it?

#50

Post by pirateking »

Tycho wrote: post #7

All I really want from journalists is the information that most of us are too lazy or busy to collect. I want them to make phone calls, speak to insiders, cross reference public statements with available records, generally make a nuisance of themselves until they have some new insights to bring to light. Most times though it seems they're barely doing any more research than what went into a well received HN comment.…

"Journalist" has somehow mutated into "Blogging" and "Live streams", with a page hit, view count, ad revenue pumping machine that tries to incinerate whatever relics remain.

I agree with your notion of "journalist". A rebranding of the burnt name may be in order. I like the idea of calling those who practice the craft Detectives.

Post reply on HN