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The Post-American Internet

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Re: The Post-American Internet

#361

Post by Fnoord »

berdario wrote: post #344
piltdownman wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European citizens under US sanctions are being erased economically and socially within the EU. This is not to mention the systemic dismantling of the ICC at an individual level. The US has sanctioned six ICC judges this year, along with the court’s chief prosecutor and two deputy prosecutors. Prior to Trump, most of the ~15,000 individuals on the US sanctions list were members of Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Mafia, or warlord…

> As a result they now can't book a hotel, use credit cards or access everyday services. As Nicolas Guillou says 'You are effectively blacklisted by much of the world's banking system' Totally agree that this is absurd and disportionate, especially as a consequence of a US decision. I mean, it's one thing to sanction a foreign billionaire: freezing their assets, thus preventing them from wielding their power in our b…

Who is 'we'? Which data are you referring to? (If you mean e.g. Samsung Galaxy with GrapheneOS, by all means.)

We need to consider a few factors.

If you are from EU, and you want GDPR to be enforced, you need to work with countries which follow your local law. The USA is hinting at no longer doing so, since it retaliates with sanctions.

Now, where would you host, and why? Norway seems like an interesting target, since they are very high on renewable energy. Norway isn't part of EU, but part of the EEA. Latency with Asian countries such as South Korea, Japan, and Australia isn't going to be ideal. But if the company behind it is from there, and they have a local presence in Europe, why not? Could even work with proprietary software. FOSS can help here.

Hardware is a difficult target. It is near impossible to avoid China in this regard. And if you do, you often end up with US products. OSHW can help, but it is rather uncommon. We also have a constraint: we need energy efficient in Europe.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#362

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

dspillett wrote: post #349
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet nearly two thirds of the population either directly voted for it or sat on their elbows and let it happen. While true, that still leaves more than 100 million people who did not.

True. But I'm assuming over there is similar to over here wrt brexit and such: some of the loudest voices wailing “we didn't vote for that” are people who actively did vote for [whatever], or didn't vote at all.

I'm not seeing that. The Leopards Ate My Face people are amplified mostly by people who have not had their faces eaten by leopards, partly in mockery, partly in humor. The complainants don't have much of a voice (thankfully, I suspect).

Re: The Post-American Internet

#363

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

theturtlemoves wrote: post #334
beepbooptheory wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. But if "Western-style billionaires" provide peace and prosperity, don't leave us hanging on what's causing all the misery and poverty!

I'd say media and advertising are the most likely. I'm pretty happy with the products I buy, I get good value. No complaints on the billionaires from me

billionaires run the media and advertising industries.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#364

Post by beepbooptheory »

theturtlemoves wrote: post #334
beepbooptheory wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. But if "Western-style billionaires" provide peace and prosperity, don't leave us hanging on what's causing all the misery and poverty!

I'd say media and advertising are the most likely. I'm pretty happy with the products I buy, I get good value. No complaints on the billionaires from me

What if, hypothetically, in order to fix or otherwise rid ourselves of the media and advertising we had to accept the disappearance of the billionaires? Would it be worth it?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#365

Post by dspillett »

codyb wrote: post #321
dspillett wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your government is entirely forced upon you, they're is only so far the populace can distance itself from them. The majority of the bad crap this American administration is doing and has done was predicted, heck a lot of it they effectively promised during & before the election, yet nearly two thirds of the population either directly voted for it or sat on their elbows and let it happen.

I'm not sure how your math stacks out... but 2/3rds of 330 million people is not 75 million votes. The fact is, the American electoral system is heavily stacked against the actual population due to... - Citizens United allows individuals with sums of wealth which are nearly incomprehensible to literally drop hundreds of millions of dollars on a single election and not even have a dent in net worth - The electoral col…

> but 2/3rds of 330 million people is not 75 million votes

It was a remembered stat, and there were more than 75,000,000 who “either directly voted for it or sat on their elbows and let it happen”.

A quick check of official stats:

    The turnout of 64.1% and 49.1%/49.3%/1.9% “of the vote” figures means:
    ~32% rep
    ~31% dem
    ~ 1% other
    ~36% did not vote
So 68% voted for it or sat on their elbows. Pretty close to my half-remembered two thirds.

> it's not like Europe hasn't had it's fair share of bullshit and far right parties.

True, and they are worryingly gaining ground in a number of places (here in the UK for one), but the whole EU (or Europe, or the EEA, depending on the exact set of countries we want to include in the pot for this discussion) has never been close to far-right in that time.

> That then the US and Europe can be more equal partners than before this monster of an individual

Eventually, hopefully. We'll see what happens in a couple of years. But the trust won't come back overnight even from where it is now, and there is plenty of time for the situation to get worse. I expect it will take a couple of terms at the very least for things to even out close to where they were before, if they ever do.

And for all the claims of “defending democracy and the free world”, the unilateral arseholery in general and active threats to other democracies (the EU overall, its individual states, and non-EU states), gives other regimes a loverly big mess to point at while asking “Do you really want democracy?”, so it might not even be possible for things to revert over that timescale because of the changes in balance elsewhere as less direct consequence.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#366

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Supernaut wrote: post #300
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you look at money, education etc basically the south of Dublin is incredibly rich relative to the rest of the country. It tends to be where much of the media and business interests of the country are focused, and you never see (for example) a Traveller halting site, or an immigration centre being set up there. Whereas, if you look at a place like Tallaght (which to be fair is also south dublin) you'll see worse…

Well, those are common talking points in some quarters, but I can tell you they're false, because I live in a southside suburb, the kind of place that journalists describe as "leafy". For the last couple of years, a large immigration centre has been operating a kilometer and a half away from my house. (You haven't heard of it because there were no protests about it.) There's a halting site located a kilometer away fr…

> Is the system perfect? No, of course not. But the Us vs Them polemics are unfair.

Fair enough, I recognise that I may have been unfair to many residents of South Dublin in my generalisation. That being said, there is a really common pattern of anything that inconveniences higher income voters being pushed into poorer areas.

For a good example, look at where all of the large apartment buildings are being actually built (as opposed to being judically reviewed). There's a pretty clear pattern of them being built in poorer areas relative to richer ones, and I guess that's where I'm coming from here.

Like, I live in a similarly leafy suburb (but on the Northside) and they wanted to build a set of high rise apartments on a junction next to the N3, and it was shut down with many angry comments. Meanwhile, over by Blanchardstown shopping centre (a much poorer area) they're building a similarly sized apartment block with local objections being steam-rollered.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#367

Post by Fnoord »

throwaway_7423 wrote: post #355
Fnoord wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think if the NSA is not allowed to do something, that they'll be held accountable? In 2026? I doubt it very much so. The USA sits on a lot of data from EU, and that is a bad situation. We also need to stop selling important companies such as Nexperia (to CN) and Zivver (to USA).

> Do you really think if the NSA is not allowed to do something, that they'll be held accountable? In 2026? I know more than a few career lawyers who worked or currently work at NSA. It would blow your mind how rigidly they follow the laws and rules when it comes to US citizens. Of course I don't expect you to believe me because "I said so" or anything like that. I can tell you definitively that when it comes to US c…

The most fun proof this isn't the case is Keith Alexander lying in congress with 'not willingly' which is something completely different from 'not knowingly'. The NSA uses loopholes in laws and back around Snowden they played the card of using one European Union country versus another.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#369

Post by acdha »

chkchk wrote: post #232
atwrk wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no it means u_sama has (correctly, IMO) observed that the US has made it very clear in the past year that they don't regard the EU as an ally. I mean the openly talk about annexing EU territory right now .

That assumes that all Americans support the actions of the current administration. I know of no one that supports these actions.

> That assumes that all Americans support the actions of the current administration

This is making the mistake of trying to distinguish between what individual voters want and what the American government and large businesses do. If you’re, say, a Dane wondering if it’s safe to use Windows, iOS, or Chrome, you don’t care about a hundred million Democrats think but instead can only go by what you think the people in power will order and the odds that Satya, Sundar, or Tim will resist requests to compromise your interests. The number of people involved fit on a private jet.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#370

Post by neves »

piltdownman wrote: post #295
miroljub wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European I'd be rather tracked by an American (out Chinese, Russian, ...) company than by an EU or European regimes. Those companies are less likely to imprison or censor me than the regime who rules over Europe.

European citizens under US sanctions are being erased economically and socially within the EU. This is not to mention the systemic dismantling of the ICC at an individual level. The US has sanctioned six ICC judges this year, along with the court’s chief prosecutor and two deputy prosecutors. Prior to Trump, most of the ~15,000 individuals on the US sanctions list were members of Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Mafia, or warlord…

They also used Magnitsky law to prevent Brazilian judges to have any bank account it credit card. Just because America didn't like their decisions.
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