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C Is Best (2025)

sqlite.org

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Re: C Is Best (2025)

#71

Post by kibwen »

enricozb wrote: post #10

The final comments in this text seem sobering and indicate an openness to change. I worked recently on a project to migrate RediSearch to Rust, and this was partially motivated by a decent number of recent CVEs. If SQLite doesn't have this problem, then there needs to be some other strong argument for moving to Rust. I also think it's important to have really solid understandings (which can take a few decades I imagi…

It's nice that they don't dismiss out-of-hand the idea of using a language other than C (the conclusion is far less dogmatic than the editorialized title here suggests (the actual title of the page being "Why Is SQLite Coded In C?")). But let's be clear that the stability and "boringness" that C currently enjoys took literal decades to realize (pre-ANSI C was a wild-west shitshow that makes pre-ECMA Javascript look tame by comparison), and giving the same leeway to other languages probably doesn't suggest using e.g. Rust until at least 2040 or so.

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#72

Post by hmry »

baranul wrote: post #34

Every project and programmer shouldn't feel they have to justify their choice not to use Rust (or Zig), who seem to be strangely and disproportionately pushed on Hacker News and specific other social media platforms. This includes the pressure, though a bit less in recent years, to use OOP. If they are getting good results with C and without OOP, and people like the product, then those from outside the project should…

Yeah, results are what matters. SQLite's process seems to produce solid bug-free results.

My only complaint would be that there's many SQL features I want to use which aren't supported. Surely some part of that is deliberately restricted scope, but some might also be dev velocity issues.

DuckDB (C++) can be used like an SQLite with more SQL features, but it's also a lot buggier. Segfaults from your database are not what you want.

So still hoping for some alternative to come along (or maybe I'll need to write it myself)

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#73

Post by uecker »

I agree that C is best. I think Rust is actually a language with some severe downsides, despite having including some very good ideas and C having some real issues. But it will take a couple of years before one can discuss this rationally without being flamed at.

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#74

Post by shakna »

jll29 wrote: post #46

BTW, the study referred to in 1.2, which claims that SQLite was faster than the file system is not supported by the numbers in the study referenced: https://github.com/chrisdavies/dbench

> For a my real(ish) world scenario, SQLite-- once warmed up-- is roughly twice as fast as the file system.

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#75

Post by talkingtab »

Oh look. Something works. Lets not break it? How crazy is that?

I sometimes wonder if what happens is like this:

1. Have problem. Need higher level computer language. 2. Think about problem. 3. Solve problem - 'C' 4. Think about problems with 'C' 5. Attempt to fix problems with 'C' - get C++ 6. Think about problems with C & C++ 7. Get: Go, F#, Rust, Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, ...other etc.

I tend to do this. The problem is obvious, that I do not repeat step #2. So then I move to the next step.

8. Thinking about how to fix C, C++, Go, F#, Rust, Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, ...other is too hard. 9. Stop thinking.

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#76

Post by MeetingsBrowser »

uecker wrote: post #73

I agree that C is best. I think Rust is actually a language with some severe downsides, despite having including some very good ideas and C having some real issues. But it will take a couple of years before one can discuss this rationally without being flamed at.

> Rust is actually a horrible language

Can you expand a little?

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#78

Post by idle_zealot »

uecker wrote: post #73

I agree that C is best. I think Rust is actually a language with some severe downsides, despite having including some very good ideas and C having some real issues. But it will take a couple of years before one can discuss this rationally without being flamed at.

If you want to spread this idea, it would probably help your cause if you pointed to what you think Rust does particularly poorly. Steep learning curve, npm-esque packaging?

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#79

Post by CuriouslyC »

baranul wrote: post #34

Every project and programmer shouldn't feel they have to justify their choice not to use Rust (or Zig), who seem to be strangely and disproportionately pushed on Hacker News and specific other social media platforms. This includes the pressure, though a bit less in recent years, to use OOP. If they are getting good results with C and without OOP, and people like the product, then those from outside the project should…

OOP was always debatable, but with the rise of AI agents I'd go so far as to say it's objectively bad now. AI is much better at reasoning about pure function grammars than imperative classes with inheritance; abstractions that aren't airtight are bug factories.

Re: C Is Best (2025)

#80

Post by MeetingsBrowser »

Ragnarork wrote: post #63

> Libraries written in C++ or Java can generally only be used by applications written in the same language. It is difficult to get an application written in Haskell or Java to invoke a library written in C++. On the other hand, libraries written in C are callable from any programming language. Not saying they should have picked C++ but that's a bit untrue. It's quite easy given some thought into the API to invoke C++…

> It's quite easy given some thought into the API to invoke C++ code in basically any language which can invoke C code, since you can wrap a C++ implementation in a C interface

Is it easy to write a nice C interface for C++ that makes heavy use of templates, smart pointers, and move semantics?

I've only seen it done for C++ that is more C than C++, or for libraries that were designed to "bail out" to a C interface.

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