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A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

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131–140 of 208 posts

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#131
post #11

Insider trading is a feature, not a bug, say Shayne and Tarek, stupidly. You can't have this amount of obvious manipulation and expect the average retail consumer to join. Same reason why there hasn't been mass consumer adoption of crypto. People just don't feel safe.

If you think Polymarket wants retail customers to join, you're misunderstanding the point of Polymarket.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#132
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely has been! In general prediction markets can’t be “correct” or “incorrect” - for instance if a prediction market says there’s a 60% chance of an event occurring, and it doesn’t occur, was the market right or wrong? Well it’s hard to say - certainly the market said the event was more likely to occur than not, but only just, and who knows? Maybe the event _only just_ occurred, and very nearly didn’t! So ge…

Some of the longshot biases still exists and can't be removed due to technical constraints on the platforms. A lot of times there is a minimum contract price, which effectively means the probability of unlikely events cannot be modeled as lower than 1% or 0.1% or whatever. But there are contracts for events much less likely than that.

There are also issues with the time value of money for long-shot events. Someone has to be willing to buy a share of "No", and if that works out to a return lower than the risk-free rate (eg. buying t-bills) there will be no incentive to take the "No" position. That makes anything roughly under 3-4% per year pretty unreliable.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#133
post #78
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely has been! In general prediction markets can’t be “correct” or “incorrect” - for instance if a prediction market says there’s a 60% chance of an event occurring, and it doesn’t occur, was the market right or wrong? Well it’s hard to say - certainly the market said the event was more likely to occur than not, but only just, and who knows? Maybe the event _only just_ occurred, and very nearly didn’t! So ge…

Charlie Kirk has a 3% chance of winning a Nobel Peace Prize right now according to Polymarket. He's climbed from 1% since Maduro was arrested. It seems unlikely since Nobels aren't awarded posthumously.

To be fair you’re not really providing a hard stance against the estimate. You say it is unlikely, and indeed the prediction is a 3% chance. That’s unlikely.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#134
post #78
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely has been! In general prediction markets can’t be “correct” or “incorrect” - for instance if a prediction market says there’s a 60% chance of an event occurring, and it doesn’t occur, was the market right or wrong? Well it’s hard to say - certainly the market said the event was more likely to occur than not, but only just, and who knows? Maybe the event _only just_ occurred, and very nearly didn’t! So ge…

Charlie Kirk has a 3% chance of winning a Nobel Peace Prize right now according to Polymarket. He's climbed from 1% since Maduro was arrested. It seems unlikely since Nobels aren't awarded posthumously.

The issue there is time. The Nobel prizes will be announced in around 9 months. Buying a share of "No" would currently cost 98.2 cents, working out to a (basically) risk-free return of around 2.4%. Alternatively someone who wants a very low-risk investment product could just buy 1-year t-bills with a return of... ~3.5%. And that doesn't require messing around with buying crypto and the inherent risk of trusting Polymarket with your money.

Anything under 3%/year of time until decision is going to have pretty limited predictive value within that range. Anything starting above that range will end up hitting that floor rather than going to zero because of the difficulty of finding a counterparty.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#135
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say you don't want prediction markets and that's fine. It's not responding to my comment though which is saying that if we have prediction markets, the goal should be for them to reveal facts about the world. If you think prediction or stock markets should be "fair" then you have a very bizarre definition of fair (one that's compatible with a game that only rich people can win). Also desiring "fairness" impli…

They aren’t predicting anything if the result is known a priori. Words matter - “prediction markets” just smooths over grift by making it sound reasonable.

The result was not, and could never have been, known a priori. All sorts of random things could have gone wrong with the operation causing the raid to fail and Maduro to remain in power. Trump could have just randomly changed his mind, or postponed the raid to beyond the end of January (the cutoff for the betting market). The person placing the bet was still taking a chance, but it was an informed chance that shifted the market probability more in line with reality.

If it helps, you can think of the money made as the payment to a confidential informant for information that contributed to a more complete picture of the world. It just happens via a distributed algorithm, using market forces, rather than at the discretion of some intelligence officer or whoever. The more important the information you have to share, the more it moves the market and the bigger your "fee". It's not being a "grifter" to provide true information that moves the market correctly. In fact, this mechanism filters out the actual grifters - you can't make money (in expectation) by providing false information, like traditional informants sometimes can.

This "intelligence gathering" function is the primary goal of a prediction market. It's the only reason it makes sense to even have them. If you turn it into some parlor game where everybody who participates has access to all the same information, then what are we even doing here?

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#136
This is such a small amount that either this is one of many accounts the user made in order to mask said activity or this was just a lucky bet (people make stupid lucky bets on hunches all the time).

Imagine the massive value of having such a world changing event in advance (the search volume alone probably affected an order of magnitude more in online advertising revenue at least). $430k?! Are you F’ing serious?

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#137
post #61
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that a prediction market effectively liberates the directional content of that information by converting it into prices." I can see this, and I guess maybe my issue is with the phrasing of "aggregating" insider information. Because you aren't just aggregating insider info, you are also aggregating non-insider information, but no one (but the insider) knows what is right. Is there different types of prediction market…

I would argue that a "market" in whether it will rain on Saturday isn't really a prediction market, or even a market, at all. It's just a bookmaking operation. The core function of any market, in anything, is price discovery. What's the difference between a "Monday it will rain" market and a NCAAF prop bet on a team's rushing yards? I could argue that DraftKings prop bets are actually more like prediction markets tha…

Tradeable risk is the difference between the ncaaf bet and rain futures. Levine has joked that perhaps there is some tenuous way that sports gambling is poolable risk to owners, players and coaches but there is real and obvious economic utility with rain. Neither get the advantages of prediction markets.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to have been outlawed ~13 years ago.

And that certainly seems to have solved the problem...

https://theonion.com/proposed-bill-would-bring-4-000-troops-...

Regardless of what happens, it is not the case that insider trading isn't illegal for members of Congress, except for some technicalities:

- The act of 2012 does not purport to make insider trading by congressmen illegal. Rather, it purports to make explicit that insider trading by congressmen was illegal before it was passed.

- Insider trading isn't illegal for anyone, in the particular sense that there is no law making it a crime (or any other kind of violation). It exists purely as a construct of the SEC's interpretation of a law that doesn't mention it.

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#139
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t predicting anything if the result is known a priori. Words matter - “prediction markets” just smooths over grift by making it sound reasonable.

The result was not, and could never have been, known a priori. All sorts of random things could have gone wrong with the operation causing the raid to fail and Maduro to remain in power. Trump could have just randomly changed his mind, or postponed the raid to beyond the end of January (the cutoff for the betting market). The person placing the bet was still taking a chance, but it was an informed chance that shifted…

Wasn't a guy at google seeing the top seach result before publication and bet on those? That's also intelligence gathering, so i guess that's okay?

Re: A prediction market user made $436k betting on Maduro's downfall

#140

This is such a small amount that either this is one of many accounts the user made in order to mask said activity or this was just a lucky bet (people make stupid lucky bets on hunches all the time). Imagine the massive value of having such a world changing event in advance (the search volume alone probably affected an order of magnitude more in online advertising revenue at least). $430k?! Are you F’ing serious?

There were hundreds, maybe thousands of people involved in the operation. They weren't all millionaires. It could have been any random soldier, CIA/DEA agent, politicial aide, journalist or really any low-mid level operative with $30K available to them at the time.
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