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Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

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Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#31

Post by moogly »

freedomben wrote: post #23
moogly wrote: post #13

He is not causally connecting "AI" with industry and manufacturing here. Building data centers isn't manufacturing. He says in this piece that energy production needs to come first, and manufacturing later and not the other way around. Is he saying that AI will require building out energy production and the increased energy production will be used for... manufacturing? But it'll be used for the data centers. What, ex…

I don't know about Jensen specifically, and I can't remember the guy at the moment, but there have been a few tipped hands including one where the guy on national TV said something about "Americans should be gluing the iPhones together in the factory, not Chinese" and it really made a lot of this stuff click for me: they want to provide low-paying American jobs in American factories. That's probably not the whole vis…

That was Howard Lutnick. He's said a lot of, let's say "out-of-touch", things. He's not living in the real world, though.

Motorola tried that not too long ago. Didn't go well. If you want to decimate American wages, you could do it, but if you at the same time deport people who were the most ready to work for a pittance, it's going to be hard to do this without riots. Then again, Stephen Miller wants those riots, so maybe you're right.

The crux of the matter is that those workers won't be able to afford the iPhones they're assembling, however.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#32

Post by [deleted] »

freedomben wrote: post #19
hackthemack wrote: post #12

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…

Indeed, this was one of the first things I thought of too. I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. I'll never forget talking with an educated Perot voter (a friend of mine) at the time and actually being confronted with the real views, not a shallow strawman, and realizing I didn't have any good answers because I hadn't actually thought about it. That was a good matura…

[deleted]

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#33

Post by jollyllama »

bluGill wrote: post #15
jollyllama wrote: post #11

Offshore the datacenters (no jobs). Keep any manufacturing (some jobs). Problem solved.

Data centers provide jobs. Not as many as manufacturing, but the difference isn't as large as you would guess. A modern data center needs 50-100 people to repair/replace hardware, maintain the generators and such. A modern factory needs 200-500 people to do the assembly, shipping, and other such work that isn't automated. Of course if labor is cheap you can use a non-automated factory and then you will have 2000-1000…

> A modern data center needs 50-100 people

I doubt it. Job density for land usage and other externalities generated is going to be one, maybe two, orders of magnitude greater for manufacturing.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#34

Post by ecshafer »

bluGill wrote: post #15
jollyllama wrote: post #11

Offshore the datacenters (no jobs). Keep any manufacturing (some jobs). Problem solved.

Data centers provide jobs. Not as many as manufacturing, but the difference isn't as large as you would guess. A modern data center needs 50-100 people to repair/replace hardware, maintain the generators and such. A modern factory needs 200-500 people to do the assembly, shipping, and other such work that isn't automated. Of course if labor is cheap you can use a non-automated factory and then you will have 2000-1000…

Is that comparison similar square footage? I know of factories that have 10 employees and are small machine shops, and factories that have a few thousand employees (even ones that are highly automated). The difference is scale.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#35

Post by K0balt »

tokai wrote: post #29
hackthemack wrote: post #12

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…

Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors. Unless we want to return to mercantilism a global empowerment of organized labour globally is the only real way to fix this.

This assumes that leadership has a vision beyond the next quarterlies. Offshoring is seen as a solution to organized labor, unfortunately.

Exec compensation above a reasonable salary needs to to tied somehow to longer term outcomes.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#36

Post by runako »

There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country.

For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning? Historically, they were better jobs due to a strong labor movement, but that movement has been largely destroyed.

Similarly, if we want widespread prosperity, there is no reason service jobs should not be "good jobs." There is no economic rule that says that riveting should pay more than taking care of the elderly or food delivery.

We have jobs, we have just decided that the people working those jobs are not deserving of prosperity. If we re-shore jobs, what would make anyone think we would treat those jobs differently?

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#37

Post by ck2 »

lol

"AI" is going to coincidentally collapse the same time this tyrannical presidency ends

what drugs are you doing where you truly believe eliminating millions of jobs is going to bring "prosperity"

it's going to "silo" wealth even further and make everything more unaffordable

next generation won't even be able to own a car forget a home

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#38

Post by itsyonas »

blitzar wrote: post #3

He is free to give back some of his $150bn anytime.

I do think that this is at the heart of the problem. The issue is not an overall lack of wealth, but how it is distributed. This is not going to change, no matter how many data centres or factories are built in the US. Ultimately, all the wealth will still end up in the hands of a select few.

Not to mention that we are already exceeding a number of planetary boundaries, which endanger humans. The ever-growing demand for natural resources and energy, which is directly coupled to GDP growth, is not likely to end well.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#39

Post by ecshafer »

Onshoring manufacturing and bringing back the US manufacturing base is a critical issue. This is from a social and security pov. Having millions of young men wallowing around playing video games and drugs all day and not working, raising families, is disgusting and a sign of collapse. We need manufacturing back in a big way, unfortunately I don't think that Trump, despite also thinking that, has the vision or ability to make it happen.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#40

Post by m000 »

> In a recent speech, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang outlined his plan for bringing manufacturing jobs back to America: force companies to build AI infrastructure in America.

Not self-serving at all.

> Since founding Nvidia in 1993, he has overseen its transformation into a central supplier of computing platforms for AI, data centers, and high-performance systems. That position provides direct exposure to the industrial requirements behind digital innovation, including power generation, fabrication capacity, and workforce availability. From this vantage point, energy is the basis of the economy from which everything is built.

This reads just like AI slop: I am applying for a government advisor position. Can you please write me a short paragraph linking the work experience listed in my resume with the position?

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